Fret possibly coming away from board.....Advice?

RocknRollDave

Dug out my LP Studio so a colleague could take a look at it and make it playable again. Tweaked the truss rod, raised the bridge to a more sensible height and now it's fine EXCEPT for a buzzy D string, which seems to only happen when the string is played open - suggesting a problem with the first fret or maybe the nut. 
Nut looks fine, no excessive wear at the D string, nor does the D seems to sit lower in the nut than it should.
However, the first fret looks to my amateur eye like it is raised a little in the middle of the fret - i.e. the fret has too much of a radius compared to the board and to the other frets. Is this possible? Is this even a thing? 

Assuming my amateur diagnosis is correct, what is the best way to remedy this, and what should I expect to pay  a decent repairer?

If it was the fret coming g up at the ends, I'd have a go at gluing it back in myself and clamping it to set, but this sounds more like something I could mess up

RocknRollDave

PS I guess photos would help but I don't physically have the guitar with me today....

guitars4you

always hard to fully evaluate what is happening without the guitar actually in front of you - If it is buzzing on an open string you'd tend to suspect the top nut - fret the D string at the 3rd fret and look to see if there is a hint of a gap at the 1st fret - A well cut nut and this gap is so slight it is barely measurable - No gap and it will buzz - To big a gap (which I'm sure you won't have) and it can cause tuning problems

If no gap, so the chances are it is buzzing, then a quick simple repair is possible  either side of the top nut then mask off - gently drop some Superglue into the nut slot - handy to  get a thin string and 'manouvre' the glue into the slot - leave for a day and recut as required - assuming you have a proper top nut file set - If not many techs can sort this out for you - A new nut is possible but this repair can work well

Yes a fret can lift, but unlikely to effect one string alone - they can 'spring' out of their slots and as such it would generally have an impact on 2/3 strings and not one - If you think it has 'sprung out' and there are gaps below the bottom of the fret and the fingerboard, you can try and tap it back in - a lollypop stick, or similar and rest along the length of the fret and gently tap back in - This might or might not work - depends if the fret slot has worn, is to big, or the tangs on the fret can bite against the fingerboard slot to remain seated - They can even re-spring back up - you won't know until you've tried - Option then is to remove the fret and try again with a touch of glue, but I tend to get a tech to look at it for you and replace the one fret - I assume other frets are fine and not causing any issues and no fret wear of any concern

ICBM

Having just found a similar problem on a customer's Les Paul which continued even after a full fret dress when the first fret is now if anything too low relative to the nut, I would suspect the nut groove. On a Gibson the D slot always wears fastest because the break angle is steep and the string is wound so it acts a bit like a file as you tune up when restringing, or even if you bend it hard. It doesn't have to be too low to make the string buzz - if it's nipping the string further back than the front edge it will cause a 'sitar' effect as it vibrates in the wider gap at the front.

Mickeyji

If you have a rubber hammer, you can tap the fret back in if it's lifted.

SteveRobinson

I think it's unlikely that the fret is lifting as they are glued in. Much more likely that the nut is worn as @ICBM says.

Mickeyji

SteveRobinson said:

I think it's unlikely that the fret is lifting as they are glued in. Much more likely that the nut is worn as @ICBM says.

 Yeah, you're probably right - I'd just make sure before working on the nut, since @RocknRollDave does mention the fret looking to be a tad too high.

RocknRollDave

Thanks everyone!
Taking the advice above on board, I am putting my amateurish assumption that is was a lifted fret to one side (as @guitars4you says, it would more likely affect 2 or 3 strings rather than just the one) and accepting that it is the nut at fault.

My colleague tried a bit of tape in the nut slot, just to test out the theory that building the slot up a bit would resolve the issue and... hey presto, it did.

Wouldn't want to replace the nut myself, and don't really want to be paying out money on this right now, so my first step will be to try and build the slot for the D string back up a bit myself - Ed of Ed's Shed fame suggests in his video using layers of Superglue. Other suggestions have included baking soda.  Any suggestions from our more experienced forumites?

ICBM

Lift all the strings out of the nut, put a tiny drop of superglue in the groove, then lightly rub some sandpaper over the top of the nut so the dust falls into the glue. Wait until it's set then check the height.

guitars4you

ICBM said:

Lift all the strings out of the nut, put a tiny drop of superglue in the groove, then lightly rub some sandpaper over the top of the nut so the dust falls into the glue. Wait until it's set then check the height.

endorse that - leave for a day to go rock hard - I generally help 'rub' the glue in the slot with a 10 or 9 gauge string, to make sure it has smeared the  base of the string slot

RocknRollDave

Thanks @ICBM and @guitars4you - Appreciated, as always.

So are we talking the teensiest spot of glue, like a pinhead?

guitars4you

RocknRollDave said:

Thanks @ICBM and @guitars4you - Appreciated, as always.

So are we talking the teensiest spot of glue, like a pinhead?

mask either side of the top nut - and yes a small spot - but make sure it goes to the bottom of the slot - hence a string to guide/rub it down to there - chances are that once dry the slot will be to high now and need a slight nut file to take down a touch - fret the string at the 3rd fret and you need barely a gap over the 1st fret - so need to measure it as such, just that barely a hint of a gap at the 1st fret

RocknRollDave

Great stuff, many thanks

RocknRollDave

Tis done, and it worked - thanks all.


Only problem now is a buzz on the low E around the 12th fret. Arse.
Have tweaked the truss rod and the bridge height, action is already pretty high, so not really sure what to do next, but that's another thread.

guitars4you

RocknRollDave said:

Tis done, and it worked - thanks all.


Only problem now is a buzz on the low E around the 12th fret. Arse.
Have tweaked the truss rod and the bridge height, action is already pretty high, so not really sure what to do next, but that's another thread.

is it the E only or from the E and above

assuming a good set up regarding a sensible action and relief then I suspect one of two things 

High fret so fret dress probably required
Slight kink on the string itself  - not uncommon - try a new string

impmann

I was going to suggest a different string.

sweepy

The superglue-nut-dust fix is an old one of Dan Erlewine, probably my go to source when things go awry. If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me

SteveRobinson

sweepy said:

The superglue-nut-dust fix is an old one of Dan Erlewine, probably my go to source when things go awry. If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me

Except maybe for that time when he advocated setting frets using oversized slots and epoxy glue.

WezV

SteveRobinson said:

sweepy said:

The superglue-nut-dust fix is an old one of Dan Erlewine, probably my go to source when things go awry. If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me

Except maybe for that time when he advocated setting frets using oversized slots and epoxy glue.

It was a commonly recommended method for a long time.  It's not totally terrible when done well, but too many used it as a short cut.  

It's still a useful technique to know for the refret of a refret or damaged slots that can't be rebuilt easily

FelineGuitars

SERIOUS ADVICE - CHECK THE STRING FIRST 
You can have a small kink in a string that otherwise goes unnoticed under tension except for a hard to figure out buzz making you think you have fret problems.

Loosen the string and run it through your forefinger and thumb and make sure there isn't a kink or bump in the string (no matter how small). If there is a kink or bump, replace the string first and try the guitar again. 

If the problem goes away you'll have avoided much messing about and worry
If the problem remains you are no worse off for checking.