DSP options

Jalapeno

So we've established the ProTools stuff still costs more than a good s/h car (or smaller new one) http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/1462811

What are the alternatives (if any) - I swear I had a more reliable setup with my Creative Labs card under Windows 95 !

All I want is 1 or 2 channels (don't need a Danny1969 recording studio setup ),  the ability to monitor playback & play without too much lag.

School me on the gear guys !

Software - not bothered, Logic, Reaper, Tracktion ... anything (let's leave that out of it)

stratman3142

On the specific topic of latency (or lag), there's a useful resource on the latency of various interfaces at the link below:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=174445

And below is a direct link to the summary referenced in the link above
http://www.kailuamusicschool.com/tech/round-trip-latency-roundup/

If you want to use a DSP option to, in effect, direct monitor and use the sounds from within the DSP (as opposed monitoring through VSTs within the DAW)  then the Helix is a very good option.

guitarfishbay

Do you need absolute zero latency, or will you tolerate some latency?

The Focusrite Clarett Cards are very fast, I think I get something like 4ms roundtrip at 48khz 64 sample buffer in Logic X.  It's acceptable to me, but YMMV

Jalapeno

No not zero necessarily, but something with inaudible lag would be pleasant.

Looking a Clarett.

Just want to get back to recording against my own (or an mp3) backing track without audible delay.

Given up wanting that ^^^^ plus ability to record a webcam video (which I had back in the day) - seemingly impossible (you can do it audibly for sure - playing everything live in the room - but not via interconnected software (Mac or PC) )

dindude

Zoom thunderbolt tac-2 if you're using mac, I found it very good re latency.

guitarfishbay

It really depends how sensitive you are to latency, and how you're monitoring.

I'm fairly sensitive to latency.

However at 4ms, I can't really feel it if the only source of sound is my monitoring.  Feels fine to me.

I can tell if for example I'm recording an acoustic guitar on headphones, and take on headphone off (so one ear is hearing the monitored sound, and one is hearing the direct sound from the guitar).  But given that isn't a common scenario I'd say it's fast enough to not matter.

The buffer you use and the sample rate you record at will impact on latency.  Basically the higher the sample rate, and lower the buffer the better (as in lower latency) - but the limits will be based on your computer and what you're expecting it to do.  I use 48khz because it allows me to use SPDIF with my Axe FX 2.  If I wanted to use a different sample rate I wouldn't be able to use SPDIF.

If you're using a plugin guitar amp sim that may also impact on latency.

I don't have any experience trying to record videos other than just using my iPhone.

Jalapeno

Don't want to refresh the MacMini if I can avoid it - but it's c.2009 Core2Duo vintage, so looking likely ( the SSD upgrade works well, but the firmware will only use 4Gb max of RAM - there's 16Gb in it )

Probably go back to the latest Tracktion on PC - it's all the arseache of titting around with samples & buffers etc that causes my inertia and looking for a silver bullet solution ! 

PolarityMan

guitarfishbay said:

It really depends how sensitive you are to latency, and how you're monitoring.

I'm fairly sensitive to latency.

However at 4ms, I can't really feel it if the only source of sound is my monitoring.  Feels fine to me.

I can tell if for example I'm recording an acoustic guitar on headphones, and take on headphone off (so one ear is hearing the monitored sound, and one is hearing the direct sound from the guitar).  But given that isn't a common scenario I'd say it's fast enough to not matter.

The buffer you use and the sample rate you record at will impact on latency.  Basically the higher the sample rate, and lower the buffer the better (as in lower latency) - but the limits will be based on your computer and what you're expecting it to do.  I use 48khz because it allows me to use SPDIF with my Axe FX 2.  If I wanted to use a different sample rate I wouldn't be able to use SPDIF.

If you're using a plugin guitar amp sim that may also impact on latency.

I don't have any experience trying to record videos other than just using my iPhone.

4ms is pretty good, prob less than the delay you hear playing in a room with other people for example.

maltingsaudio

If it really is just two channels then have a look at getting an Allen and Heath ZED10 fx mixer with USB out you can do what you want with it http://www.allen-heath.com/ahproducts/zed-12fx/ ;

Jalapeno

maltingsaudio said:

If it really is just two channels then have a look at getting an Allen and Heath ZED10 fx mixer with USB out you can do what you want with it 

Got to be rackable (or 1/2 rackable on a shelf), but thanks - looks good

maltingsaudio

Jalapeno said:

maltingsaudio said:

If it really is just two channels then have a look at getting an Allen and Heath ZED10 fx mixer with USB out you can do what you want with it 

Got to be rackable (or 1/2 rackable on a shelf), but thanks - looks good

There is a rack mount kit for it , bit price pricey though at£70!

Jalapeno

It looks bigger than my 18u rack !!!

wave100

It really depends what and how you want to record - if you want to play guitar through an amp and stick a mic in front of it then most interfaces have a latency free direct monitoring mode, just use that and latency isn't an issue. Same for something like the Helix (which I assume  being digital will add a couple of ms or so)
This way of working doesn't put much strain on the computer so you should be fine with your C2D computer as long as it is compatible with the software and interface you want to use. I doubt it will handle Thunderbolt for example. Does it have USB 2?
Latency is only a problem if you want to record using Amp sims or soft synths on the computer, in which case you will probably have to update your machine, the faster your computer the lower latency you can run at. 

I have an ageing PC (HP Z400 with a Xeon processor) running windows 10 which gives me acceptable latency, for me anyway, using an SPL Crimson AI. Also very usable is a late 2012 Macbook Pro with i5, so you don't necessarily need the fastest machine on the planet to get usable latency. I am recording a mixture of soft synths and live sources.

One important thing for me when choosing an AI is that it records at 24 bit, for which I think you will need a minimum of USB 2.