Manchester Arena explosion.

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  • joeyowen said:
    Another thing that gets right up my fucking nose....what the fuck is a suicide bomber? 

    The definition of suicide is the intentional killing of oneself...so a suicide bomber would use a bomb to solely kill themselves. 

    These fuckers are Murder Bombers. Their victims have been murdered. 

    Language is important. Mark it. 

    Murder Bombers
    How about Coward Bombers?
    I like that even better. 
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  • RocknRollDaveRocknRollDave Frets: 6435
    Another thing that gets right up my fucking nose....what the fuck is a suicide bomber? 

    The definition of suicide is the intentional killing of oneself...so a suicide bomber would use a bomb to solely kill themselves. 

    These fuckers are Murder Bombers. Their victims have been murdered. 

    Language is important. Mark it. 

    Murder Bombers
    That would also cover people who don't kill themselves in the process, though.
    "suicide bomber" does the trick, we all know what it means.

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  • richardhomerrichardhomer Frets: 24793
    edited May 2017
    Another thing that gets right up my fucking nose....what the fuck is a suicide bomber? 

    The definition of suicide is the intentional killing of oneself...so a suicide bomber would use a bomb to solely kill themselves. 

    These fuckers are Murder Bombers. Their victims have been murdered. 

    Language is important. Mark it. 

    Murder Bombers
    Similarly 'Improvised bomb'. The definition of improvised is 'made up on the spot' or 'made up of whatever is around'. I doubt there are items lying around my house which would make a bomb in the right combination.

    This was a 'home made' bomb - deliberately made by someone, at someone's home - with the specific intention of killing people. 

    'Terrorist incident' seems to be common parlance as well. I'd be much happier if everything were described using language which properly conveys the actual weight of what has happened.
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  • GassageGassage Frets: 30826
    Speechless. x

    *An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.

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  • Another thing that gets right up my fucking nose....what the fuck is a suicide bomber? 

    The definition of suicide is the intentional killing of oneself...so a suicide bomber would use a bomb to solely kill themselves. 

    These fuckers are Murder Bombers. Their victims have been murdered. 

    Language is important. Mark it. 

    Murder Bombers
    That would also cover people who don't kill themselves in the process, though.
    "suicide bomber" does the trick, we all know what it means.
    Nope. They're not getting to the front of the queue. Fuck em. Murder Bomber it is for me. 
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  • SnapSnap Frets: 6256

    It's not Islam or Muslims that are the problem, it's terrorists.
    Tossers mate. Deluded tossers using an extreme version of Islam to unleash their evil. BUt I think its a problem inextricably linked to Islamic extremism. There is something in that faith that substantiates their beliefs - verses that support what they are doing.
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  • breakstuffbreakstuff Frets: 10229
    I'd simply be happy if the BBC and other news outlets simply started their report with

    "Some fucking arsehole with a bomb......"

    Its what we're all thinking.
    Laugh, love, live, learn. 
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  • joeyowenjoeyowen Frets: 4025
    Just a thought,

    The people who shared fake missing person posts because they wanted twitter fame, will they face punishment?  Wasting police time etc?

    It just strikes me like they need a kick into the real world.  How do they not realise that it is not OK to do it?

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  • digitalscreamdigitalscream Frets: 26458
    Snap said:

    It's not Islam or Muslims that are the problem, it's terrorists.
    Tossers mate. Deluded tossers using an extreme version of Islam to unleash their evil. BUt I think its a problem inextricably linked to Islamic extremism. There is something in that faith that substantiates their beliefs - verses that support what they are doing.
    There's plenty in other faiths which justifies it, too - it's tempting to only remember that which has happened in this century, but take a look. It strikes me that in the modern highly-connected world, there isn't really a whole lot of opportunity for geographical tribalism, but humans' tribal nature is too strong to disappear as quickly as technology has connected us all. The last relic of the "old" world - religion - has filled the gap that was left for a lot of people.
    <space for hire>
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  • RavenousRavenous Frets: 1484
    joeyowen said:
    The people who shared fake missing person posts because they wanted twitter fame, will they face punishment?  Wasting police time etc?
    I think I vaguely remember this being true in some past incidents.  (i.e. prosecuting some of these cases.)  Not sure though...
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  • bingefellerbingefeller Frets: 5723

    As ever, Twitter throws up people who defy reason or logic. 

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-40010376


    That's really messed up.  
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  • Drew_TNBDDrew_TNBD Frets: 22445
    Snap said:

    It's not Islam or Muslims that are the problem, it's terrorists.
    Tossers mate. Deluded tossers using an extreme version of Islam to unleash their evil. BUt I think its a problem inextricably linked to Islamic extremism. There is something in that faith that substantiates their beliefs - verses that support what they are doing.
    There's plenty in other faiths which justifies it, too - it's tempting to only remember that which has happened in this century, but take a look. It strikes me that in the modern highly-connected world, there isn't really a whole lot of opportunity for geographical tribalism, but humans' tribal nature is too strong to disappear as quickly as technology has connected us all. The last relic of the "old" world - religion - has filled the gap that was left for a lot of people.
    True. But I think it's important to remember that the founder of Islam WAS a paedophile AND a warlord. Religions are not comparable on this point.
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  • digitalscreamdigitalscream Frets: 26458
    edited May 2017
    Drew_TNBD said:
    Snap said:

    It's not Islam or Muslims that are the problem, it's terrorists.
    Tossers mate. Deluded tossers using an extreme version of Islam to unleash their evil. BUt I think its a problem inextricably linked to Islamic extremism. There is something in that faith that substantiates their beliefs - verses that support what they are doing.
    There's plenty in other faiths which justifies it, too - it's tempting to only remember that which has happened in this century, but take a look. It strikes me that in the modern highly-connected world, there isn't really a whole lot of opportunity for geographical tribalism, but humans' tribal nature is too strong to disappear as quickly as technology has connected us all. The last relic of the "old" world - religion - has filled the gap that was left for a lot of people.
    True. But I think it's important to remember that the founder of Islam WAS a paedophile AND a warlord. Religions are not comparable on this point.
    That's only valid up to the point where we have no basis for comparison with the other main religions - that's not to say that their founders were objectionable people, just that there's no real evidence one way or the other; the absence of such in their religious texts doesn't prove anything.

    With that said, the Christian/Jewish god could be considered the founder of those faiths, and he was a capricious misogynist murderer guilty of genocide on a scale never since matched by humans if you believe the Old Testament, so...

    On the other hand, the Bible as we currently know it is the result of editing and compilation by the Romans, at which point you have to consider their morality - paedophilia and warlike tendencies were a staple of their aristocratic class.
    <space for hire>
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  • Drew_TNBDDrew_TNBD Frets: 22445
    Drew_TNBD said:
    Snap said:

    It's not Islam or Muslims that are the problem, it's terrorists.
    Tossers mate. Deluded tossers using an extreme version of Islam to unleash their evil. BUt I think its a problem inextricably linked to Islamic extremism. There is something in that faith that substantiates their beliefs - verses that support what they are doing.
    There's plenty in other faiths which justifies it, too - it's tempting to only remember that which has happened in this century, but take a look. It strikes me that in the modern highly-connected world, there isn't really a whole lot of opportunity for geographical tribalism, but humans' tribal nature is too strong to disappear as quickly as technology has connected us all. The last relic of the "old" world - religion - has filled the gap that was left for a lot of people.
    True. But I think it's important to remember that the founder of Islam WAS a paedophile AND a warlord. Religions are not comparable on this point.
    That's only valid up to the point where we have no basis for comparison with the other main religions - that's not to say that their founders were objectionable people, just that there's no real evidence one way or the other; the absence of such in their religious texts doesn't prove anything.

    With that said, the Christian/Jewish god could be considered the founder of those faiths, and he was a capricious misogynist murderer guilty of genocide on a scale never since matched by humans if you believe the Old Testament, so...

    On the other hand, the Bible as we currently know it is the result of editing and compilation by the Romans, at which point you have to consider their morality - paedophilia and warlike tendencies were a staple of their aristocratic class.
    Right. But God doesn't/didn't exist. Muhammad did. And he raided and pillaged and raped everywhere he went. This is who people are looking up to. Concepts of God change over time, but concepts of Muhammad do not. Thus God can be used as a force for good if given the right massaging. The same isn't true for Muhammad.

    It's not fair to compare a religion which has ethereal supernatural spirituality at the centre of it, with another religion which has politics and conquest built right into the heart of it. Christianity (to my knowledge) doesn't teach people that they have to spread it to the unbelievers and kill them if they don't convert.
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 11790

    Reporting is fine. Sensationalizing is not. Do you really need to see a video of the bomb going off' Really?
    did you really need to see a video of the car driving down Westminster bridge and the woman falling off.

    We've stopped reporting - we actually get the moment, virtually live. 

    Imagine if your daughter was killed in that blast - would you really want to see it on video?

    it's been getting worse for years:
    if someone is murdered, we "have to see" people standing at the edge of the police tape over and over for hours, why can't we have a summary as things clarify
    The media's approach is what got that poor chap in bristol dragged through hell:
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/29/christopher-jefferies-tv-joanna-yeates-murder

    I also think that showing too much detail could well have damaging psychological effects on many
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  • boogiemanboogieman Frets: 12314

    As ever, Twitter throws up people who defy reason or logic. 

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-40010376


    Fucks sake. Wasn't there enough misery caused by this incident already without inventing more? What is wrong with these people.  :p
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  • NelsonPNelsonP Frets: 3347
    joeyowen said:
    Just a thought,

    The people who shared fake missing person posts because they wanted twitter fame, will they face punishment?  Wasting police time etc?

    It just strikes me like they need a kick into the real world.  How do they not realise that it is not OK to do it?

    I wonder about this, i.e. Who is posting the fake missing people and why? Twitter should be investigating that.

    For example, it could be a deliberate strategy from ISIS sympathizers to cause as much noise / confusion as possible.
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 22096
    edited May 2017
    Ravenous said:

    As ever, Twitter throws up people who defy reason or logic. 

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-40010376
    How strange. I have to keep telling myself there have always been nutters, it's not a recent phenomena...
    It's one thing to go out in the street and talk to puddles or invoke Christian hymns that prophesise the end of the world. Those people are proper nutters. Sticking up fake missing person notices is something else entirely. Something more warped. 



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  • CabbageCatCabbageCat Frets: 5549
    edited May 2017
    Snap said:

    It's not Islam or Muslims that are the problem, it's terrorists.
    Tossers mate. Deluded tossers using an extreme version of Islam to unleash their evil. BUt I think its a problem inextricably linked to Islamic extremism.
    It's not inextricably linked. Terrorism has been perpetrated by non-Muslims and Muslims have perpetrated non-terrorism. It's linked in modern times, yeah, but the two can be easily conceptually separated.

    Holding all Muslims responsible for terrorism is no better than holding all men responsible for rape (except that if you picked a random Muslim there would be a much lower chance that they were a terrorist than that of a random man being a rapist).
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 11790
    edited May 2017
    Cirrus said:

    I've spent a bit of time trying to understand the modern issue of Islamic extremism. Unlike Drew and others here, I don't think it's a Muslim problem as most Muslims condemn such acts and are decent people. I think it's a human problem, manifesting in some of the cultures, where Islam happens to be the dominant religion, which have survived through European colonialism and the expansion of western ideas. All humans everywhere feel that their culture is normal and decent, and where other cultures' attitudes and beliefs differ from your own, those differences are wrong or even evil. This naturally leads to conflict, and that's evident through all of history. We also have the idea that whatever society we've grown up in is naturally right, or at least heading in the right direction. So we have an innate sense of our own superiority when faced with people who don't think like us.

    I've felt both angry and a bit teary today too, 

    I'm not sure about your analysis though. Religions facilitate this type of behaviour, this is a fact. Christianity is not as bad as it used to be for this.

    Find me a Muslim who believes that the crusades were "not a Christian problem"

    I believe these are all facts:
    • Daesh and its followers entirely base their behaviour on the Quran, and the notion of a Caliphate
    • Contrary to common misconception, the areas causing the most trouble today were part of a massive Muslim Empire: the Ottoman empire, until WW1, the culture there was not caused by European Empires
    • Some Muslim teachers instruct followers that Islam endorses and rewards this kind of murderer.
    • Surveys found that 17% - 70% of Muslims believe that suicide bombers killing civilians is justifiable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_attitudes_toward_terrorism

    But this is not a Muslim problem?

    How many Christians or atheists do you know who think that bombing civilians can be justified?
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