I don't know what I need, amp wise.

BRISTOL86

Hey folks

At a bit of a crossroads with my playing and would appreciate some amp advice. 

First and foremost I'm a bedroom player only in a small house and nothing on that front is likely to change in the next several years. I'm happy as a bedroom player. I occasionally get together with a vocalist but that's it. I'm working hard to improve but I have no plans in the foreseeable future to play as part of a group. 

I started out with a Yamaha THR10C which I thought was an excellent bit of kit. But I found that when I wanted to record for sharing with friends/family/Instagram or whatever it was very hit and miss as to whether the recorded tone sounded anything like what I heard out the amp. 

This led me down the road to Amplitube 4, a Scarlett 2i2 and a set of monitor speakers but I'm really not loving it. I find myself spending 90% of the time twiddling things on the computer rather than playing the instrument and that's the polar opposite of what I'm tying to achieve with my playing. The plus points for this solution is that when I hit record things sound exactly like what I hear when I play which is good. But 99% of the time I'm not recording so daft to stick with this solution just for that. 

I wanted the Scarlett and speakers anyway as I wanted an easy way to record guitar and vocals so that's no big deal.

Now I'm at a bit of a crossroads and don't really know what I want/need. 

I could go back to the THR or I could look for alternative solutions. 

I posted on another forum and had multiple responses telling me to get a 'real' amp rather than a modelling amp. 

I must admit I really do like the idea of having a really basic/simple 'proper' amp without a billion effects knobs to tweak (though I do like a bit of reverb) and building up a pedalboard to flavour the tone rather than endlessly tweaking knobs in a computer program. The downside would be the difference in the ease of recording but I'd not be averse to getting a microphone for that purpose. Or I could just continue to use Amplitube when I want to make basic recordings as it's only a very rare occasion that I want or neeed to record. 

But I was under the impression that this sort of amp is designed to be used at volumes way above what would be suitable for home/bedroom use and that was what made modelling amps the better solution for the home player? 

I'd appreciate all and any advice on this as I want to buy smartly and informed rather than jumping from rig to rig. 

I play a Strat and mostly cleans and crunchy/bluesy rhythm tones. Budget for the complete 'solution' would be up to about £500. 

The overall most important thing in the setup is as good a sound as possible at 'small bedroom' volume levels. 

darthed1981

Boss Katana - give it a try.

Absolute bargain.

Edit: reasons its good for you.

Simple control layout, no sodding apps.
Attentuator set it to 0.5w for bedroom use.
Loud enough for small gigs.
Its just great.

Also on certain settings its really responsive like a valve amp, so can help train your sloppy playing (no help for me I'm still sloppy as Ellen DeGeneres at a KD Lang gig).

ThePrettyDamned

If you factor in the cost of an amp, pedalboard, cables, power supply, pedals, interface, decent microphone and the time spent getting a good mic sound... 

You'll probably find a helix lt, axe fx or kemper represents excellent value for money. 

BRISTOL86

darthed1981 said:

Boss Katana - give it a try.

Absolute bargain.

Edit: reasons its good for you.

Simple control layout, no sodding apps.
Attentuator set it to 0.5w for bedroom use.
Loud enough for small gigs.
Its just great.

Also on certain settings its really responsive like a valve amp, so can help train your sloppy playing (no help for me I'm still sloppy as Ellen DeGeneres at a KD Lang gig).

Have heard lots of good things about the Katana. But given that I still have the THR10 does it really offer anything over and above? More versatile tone wise I guess. 

ThePrettyDamned said:

If you factor in the cost of an amp, pedalboard, cables, power supply, pedals, interface, decent microphone and the time spent getting a good mic sound... 

You'll probably find a helix lt, axe fx or kemper represents excellent value for money. 

I don't know a lot about the Helix though I've seen the name thrown about a lot. So it's essentially a modelling amp but in a floor pedal configuration is that right? Forgive the silly question but then presumably you still need some kind of speaker setup to use it? 

HAL9000

Amps without too much knob twiddling...

Boss Katana
Blues Cube Hot
Orange Crush CR35

...should all take pedals reasonably well and be powerful enough for small gigs.

CarpeDiem

If you can find one, a secondhand Cornford Carrera or Harlequin could work well. They're quality valve amps, low wattage, and can take different valve types. The Carrera has reverb too. They are good at bedroom volume levels and for recording, mic'd up.

BRISTOL86

HAL9000 said:

Amps without too much knob twiddling...

Boss Katana
Blues Cube Hot
Orange Crush CR35

...should all take pedals reasonably well and be powerful enough for small gigs.

Love the look of that Blues Cube. Pricey though. 

I know the tech is different inside but would a bedroom player notice any difference using this at 0.5w vs the Katana 50 which is considerably cheaper?

ICBM

CarpeDiem said:

If you can find one, a secondhand Cornford Carrera or Harlequin could work well. They're quality valve amps, low wattage, and can take different valve types. The Carrera has reverb too. They are good at bedroom volume levels and for recording, mic'd up.

I've never tried a Carrera, but the Harlequin is a contender for being the worst-sounding valve amp I've ever heard. I wouldn't recommend one to anyone, and especially not for home use - it's harsh and boxy at any volume, but worse at very low - the V30 speaker is prone to exaggerating that characteristic.

Just my opinion of course…

If you're looking for a valve amp for home use I would get something like a second hand Fender Princeton. OK you're not going to get overdrive from it at any sensible volume, but they take pedals well and the clean tone is wonderful right down to whisper volume. The Super Champ XD is pretty good too, although it's a digital/valve hybrid rather than a straight valve amp - and it's more versatile.

darthed1981

BRISTOL86 said:

Have heard lots of good things about the Katana. But given that I still have the THR10 does it really offer anything over and above? More versatile tone wise I guess. 

A THR10 is essentially a little desktop speaker which is a guitar amp as well, its full-range and (for me at least) very expensive for what it is, YMMV, I'm not bashing.  Lots of people love them though, and if you were 100% happy with it, why not just keep it?

The Katana is a guitar amplifier and nothing else, it has a big 12" speaker, and a chunk of power so you could gig it and its f**king loud compared to most 50w SS amps.  It's also a bargain at about £180 for the 50w.

I'm going to get flamed for this but if you cant play at a decent volume dont buy valve amps, at low volumes they dont do their best service, even little 1w jobs like the Blackstar HT1R need to be cranked to sound good.

BRISTOL86

darthed1981 said:

BRISTOL86 said:

Have heard lots of good things about the Katana. But given that I still have the THR10 does it really offer anything over and above? More versatile tone wise I guess. 

A THR10 is essentially a little desktop speaker which is a guitar amp as well, its full-range and (for me at least) very expensive for what it is, YMMV, I'm not bashing.  Lots of people love them though, and if you were 100% happy with it, why not just keep it?

The Katana is a guitar amplifier and nothing else, it has a big 12" speaker, and a chunk of power so you could gig it and its f**king loud compared to most 50w SS amps.  It's also a bargain at about £180 for the 50w.

I'm going to get flamed for this but if you cant play at a decent volume dont buy valve amps, at low volumes they dont do their best service, even little 1w jobs like the Blackstar HT1R need to be cranked to sound good.

Thanks that's helpful. And essentially was exactly my default reaction to suggestions of a tube amp as everything I read suggested they were not appropriate for the bedroom player.

I kind of just happened upon the THR when I started playing the electric....I didn't do a huge amount of research.

I like it for what it is but now am in the position where I can take a bit more time and thought about what I actually want. If it happens to end up being the THR then so be it, but I suspect there might be something that fits my needs more. 

In the beginning, the ability to go direct to the Mac from the amp and have backing tracks etc going into it was a huge plus. Now I have the Scarlett I really don't need that from an amp. 

darthed1981

@BRISTOL86 ; you can have a lot of fun auditioning things at a good guitar shop as well, its worth it just for the fun factor, planning future purchases, what to save for etc

ThePrettyDamned

To be honest, for recording, unless you really know you're stuff modelling is probably a better way to go. It need not be the most expensive thing in the world, there are plenty of software options to use via an interface. 

For home practice, I use an AC15 but I'd be happy with anything that's clean and can take a couple of overdrives. For practicing metal, I use software. The repetitive riffs and solo lines (practice 1000 times to nail it type thing) drives others mad so using headphones works better all around. 

The boss katana is getting pretty amazing reviews and the one I hear (2x12 combo) sounded really excellent, but it was up loud when I heard it.  

For your simple needs, you could go for a Princeton or something, so long as you got overdrive from a pedal and was careful with the volume control. But it sounded like, from your first post, your issue was with recording quality hence the modeller recommendation from me

BRISTOL86

darthed1981 said:

@BRISTOL86 ; you can have a lot of fun auditioning things at a good guitar shop as well, its worth it just for the fun factor, planning future purchases, what to save for etc

For sure! But I think also a bit dangerous in that what sounds great in a massive guitar shop is gong to sound very different in my 10' x 10' bedroom! 

BRISTOL86

ThePrettyDamned said:

To be honest, for recording, unless you really know you're stuff modelling is probably a better way to go. It need not be the most expensive thing in the world, there are plenty of software options to use via an interface. 

For home practice, I use an AC15 but I'd be happy with anything that's clean and can take a couple of overdrives. For practicing metal, I use software. The repetitive riffs and solo lines (practice 1000 times to nail it type thing) drives others mad so using headphones works better all around. 

The boss katana is getting pretty amazing reviews and the one I hear (2x12 combo) sounded really excellent, but it was up loud when I heard it.  

For your simple needs, you could go for a Princeton or something, so long as you got overdrive from a pedal and was careful with the volume control. But it sounded like, from your first post, your issue was with recording quality hence the modeller recommendation from me

Yeah think you're right to be honest. I think I need to seperate recording from playing and treat them as seperate disciplines. 

And given that 99% of the time I'm just playing, getting a great sounding amp at house friendly volume is really all that matters here. 

fftc

Do you have the opportunity to crank the volume occasionally? Like when everyone else is out.
If you do then one of the valve amp suggestions above might be a nice option. Or there are other valve options. Laney Cub being one I've looked at recently and well within your budget.
If you don't get that chance then I think you already have the perfect set-up. THR for playing and your computer set-up for recording. The Katana might be a great modelling amp, but if you can't crank it, and don't need to gig it then I don't see that you would get an improvement in bedroom sound quality. I have a THR10C btw which I think is great for bedroom volume level practice. My modelling amp is now in the cupboard and is unlikely to come out again for bedroom duties. As usual YMMV and all that.

BRISTOL86

fftc said:

Do you have the opportunity to crank the volume occasionally? Like when everyone else is out.
If you do then one of the valve amp suggestions above might be a nice option. Or there are other valve options. Laney Cub being one I've looked at recently and well within your budget.
If you don't get that chance then I think you already have the perfect set-up. THR for playing and your computer set-up for recording. The Katana might be a great modelling amp, but if you can't crank it, and don't need to gig it then I don't see that you would get an improvement in bedroom sound quality. I have a THR10C btw which I think is great for bedroom volume level practice. My modelling amp is now in the cupboard and is unlikely to come out again for bedroom duties. As usual YMMV and all that.

Not really to be honest. My playing tends to be in the evenings after long days at work so it normally needs to be quiet. Occasionally I'll have the house to myself but even then I'm still playing in a small room and have neighbours to consider. 

Zoolooter

+1 on a used Princeton. You will have a 'proper' amp, great tone at low and medium volume and last you for years to come. Get one, have done with it 

Chris_J

Zoolooter said:

+1 on a used Princeton. You will have a 'proper' amp, great tone at low and medium volume and last you for years to come. Get one, have done with it 

+2

Princeton and a drive pedal and you're all set for home use. 

Lebarque

Whenever you're not sure about an amp, the answer is always 'tweed deluxe'. :0)

Sassafras

Tech 21 Trademark series amps are handy for home recording.
XLR out, headphone out and they sound quite good.

Exorcist

Amps I have used that are absolutely fine (and sound great) at low home/TV level volumes are: Egnator Tweaker 15 - great master volume, VHT Special 6 or Special 6 Ultra, great cleans and loves drive pedals. Palmer Eins, but its a tiny head only.
If I was doing it all over again though, I would get an attenuator early on, opens up your options a bit more, and even the low watt amps can sound have a sweet spot a bit too loud for home, and can be brought back down with an attenuator.

FWIW - I've been through all the above and plenty more, and my keeper home rig is now a Fuchs 4 Aces with a jettenuator to keep the volume down. Sounds killer, great overdrive/gain tones and great cleans that take pedals well for more flavors. Its taken me a long time to come to this rig, but I'm really happy with it, and the secret was the jettenuator. Second to that (and significantly cheaper) it was the special 6 ultra with pedals. (which I recently sold on here and already miss!)

Of course that's just my humble opinion.