Bands with two guitarists using same brand amps

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Drew_TNBDDrew_TNBD Frets: 22445
You see metal bands and sludge bands with more than one guitarist using the same amps and pedals all the time. But I've always steered clear of it.

Am I being dumb?

I want a Diezel, either a Hagen, D-Moll, or VH4. Our other guitarist is using a Hagen.

I want everything to be okaaayyyyyyyyyy
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  • FelineGuitarsFelineGuitars Frets: 11497
    tFB Trader
    The benefit of using different brands is that usually they will have different voicings and the two guitars have a bit of contrast to each other and therefore stand out in the mix from each other a bit.

    It was a problem Mesa saw with metal bands always using Dual Recs and brought out the Stiletto to let one player have a different more Marshall sound, and yet still be playing a Mesa

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    Good idea if you're doing Wishbone Ash/Thin Lizzy type dual lead guitars.

    Bad idea if you're not, unless you can set them *really* differently.

    As FelineGuitars said, it's much easier to get natural separation in the mix when the amps (and/or guitars too) are different.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • Drew_TNBDDrew_TNBD Frets: 22445
    But wouldn't the cabs, speakers, and pickups offer enough differences to give you that tonal separation?
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    Drew_TNBD said:
    But wouldn't the cabs, speakers, and pickups offer enough differences to give you that tonal separation?
    Speakers maybe - but they would need to be much more radically different than most people would be willing to consider with a particular type of amp. The rest, not really.

    The dominating factor in the tone of an electric guitar is the distortion produced by the amp (if you're using amp distortion of course!). Two amps producing roughly the same mix of harmonics and dynamics will always sound at least roughly similar in a mix.

    I've always studiously avoided using the same gear as the other player in a two-guitar band for this exact reason - I've never been good enough to consider doing the twin-lead thing…

    Mixing by frequency is far more effective than mixing by volume, and it's much easier to get a good mix where you can hear everything without having to juggle volumes and EQ at the desk, when there are as few overlapping instrument sounds as you can get.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • guitarfishbayguitarfishbay Frets: 7953
    edited May 2017
    A V30 cab and a T75 cab and would separate the frequencies about as much as you could, since I guess you'll both be using 4x12s and often both speakers give usable results for high gain
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    I think good separation comes from arrangement ..... when you want to you can hear the 2 parts because they are very different, other times you both play the same part and it sounds huge like a double tracked recording does 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • CirrusCirrus Frets: 8481
    It's all about the parts you play. Even if you have exactly the same guitar tone, if one of you is playing power chords low down and the other is playing triads higher up the arrangement is going to give you all the separation you need. Even better if you've thought rhythmically so the parts are occupying their own space.

    When you're both playing the same notes in the same range, that's when it's handy to have tones that sound distinct.
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  • DesVegasDesVegas Frets: 4510
    I think different amps is important to separate the sounds of the 2 guitars, my last band our lead guitarist had a Fender amp and the singer and I both had Marshalls and it was hard to get yourself heard / able to stand out as the sounds are so similar coming from the 2 amps. Hence me buying a good old trusty Peavey Bandito 112, et voila, there i was.
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  • Drew_TNBDDrew_TNBD Frets: 22445
    Danny1969 said:
    I think good separation comes from arrangement ..... when you want to you can hear the 2 parts because they are very different, other times you both play the same part and it sounds huge like a double tracked recording does 
    That's where my mind is at too. But maybe it's just wishful thinking coz I've got real bad Diezel gas! There's a VH4 on eBay right now for £1800!

    I do recall trying a Laney VH100R alongside our old guitarist a few years back. His was loaded with EL34's and mine was loaded with 6L6's and the clean tones were fairly similar, but the distortion tones were very different. Mine sounded more 'metal' and his sounded more 'rock' is the only way I can describe it.

    Plus I reckon there are enough tonal differences across different ranges - two Hagen's might be a bit much. A Hagen and a VH4 or D-Moll might be a totally different kettle of fish.

    Things to think about.
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  • digitalscreamdigitalscream Frets: 26464
    Generally-speaking, I'd say it's a bad idea - only because every time I've seen a band do this, the guitarists have such similar taste in sound that they're practically identical and it ends up going to mush. 99% of the time it's two guitarists, both playing Les Pauls through DSLs or Blackstars with identical cabinets.

    However.

    I'd say that you have enough awareness of tone and separation to be able to make it work, and you have the Helix (eventually...) which would allow you to notch/boost parts of your own tone to be able to make space for the other guitar when you don't want a wall of sound hitting the audience. Not only that, but your band's overall sound is fairly sparse by comparison to most bands who fall into the trap, so the job is somewhat easier.
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  • RocknRollDaveRocknRollDave Frets: 6435
    Thing is, if Drew is left-handed won't his tonez be the mirror image of those coming out of the other chap's amp? They'll complement each other perfectly, surely.

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  • guitarfishbayguitarfishbay Frets: 7953
    For a simple test just pull up the DIs for your last album and reamp through the same tone both sides, and then compare changing a cab IR (try same vendor, SM57 same position each), vs change amp through same IR, vs just using amp EQ to separate.

    It won't translate 100% to live, but it'll give you an idea at least.
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  • fretmeisterfretmeister Frets: 23966
    I hadn't thought about it much.

    In my guitar days I just happened to have different amps to the other chap.

    Marshall Valvestate 808 and a Laney Linebacker
    Marshall Valvestate and a ProAMP VSQ65 (that was ace! The ProAMP was Boogie MK inspired)
    Dual Rec and a Marshall VS but really a Digitech RP20 (that was surprisingly good too.)

    Then I swapped to bass and only ever played with 1 guitar player.

    Although there was a birthday reunion gig. I borrowed a Valvestate head and cab and the other chap used an Egnator. That was good too.

    It was all twin lead sort of stuff - we were both big Iron Maiden fans.
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  • imalrightjackimalrightjack Frets: 3723
    Danny1969 said:
    I think good separation comes from arrangement ..... when you want to you can hear the 2 parts because they are very different, other times you both play the same part and it sounds huge like a double tracked recording does 
    There's definitely wisdom in this.  Although it's easier in my band because the singer uses a Rickenbacker and an old MusicMan amp, while I usually play a Les Paul through a Friedman/Marshall sound (via Kemper).
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    My band, Red For Dissent
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  • StuckfastStuckfast Frets: 2394
    Tom Verlaine and Richard Lloyd both played Fender guitars through Fender amps. No mush there (but some very neat arrangements, not much distortion and very few full chords).
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  • ESBlondeESBlonde Frets: 3576
    The points have already been made, the arrangement and parts are critical. Also the amount of amp saturation, on clean (ish) sounds we know individual player nuance comes through and we can hear a knopfler or clapton tone, on shredded distorted stuff that subtlety is not so audible. so how do you think your playing style goes?

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  • CabicularCabicular Frets: 2214
    Thing is, if Drew is left-handed won't his tonez be the mirror image of those coming out of the other chap's amp? They'll complement each other perfectly, surely.
    You should get an identical amp and an identical left handed guitar and then reverse all the logos and work on very tight choreography

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  • olafgartenolafgarten Frets: 1648
    I think mixing guitars live is just something you have to practice. When I saw CSN live, on some parts they had 4 guitars at once. 

    Stephen Stills playing an 54 Strat into a Tweed Bassman, David Crosby playing his Tom Anderson HSS Strat through a Magnatone, Graham Nash on Acoustic and the other guy whose name I forget was playing a Les Paul into what looked like a Marshall copy. 
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  • guitarfishbayguitarfishbay Frets: 7953
    I think mixing guitars live is just something you have to practice. When I saw CSN live, on some parts they had 4 guitars at once. 

    Stephen Stills playing an 54 Strat into a Tweed Bassman, David Crosby playing his Tom Anderson HSS Strat through a Magnatone, Graham Nash on Acoustic and the other guy whose name I forget was playing a Les Paul into what looked like a Marshall copy. 
    Could you actually hear all 4 at once?  I suspect they'd be varied in volume all night according to the musical arrangement, even if they're always playing.

    Actually what's likely to be an important factor there is someone at the desk able to further separate using processing there. 
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  • olafgartenolafgarten Frets: 1648
    I think mixing guitars live is just something you have to practice. When I saw CSN live, on some parts they had 4 guitars at once. 

    Stephen Stills playing an 54 Strat into a Tweed Bassman, David Crosby playing his Tom Anderson HSS Strat through a Magnatone, Graham Nash on Acoustic and the other guy whose name I forget was playing a Les Paul into what looked like a Marshall copy. 
    Could you actually hear all 4 at once?  I suspect they'd be varied in volume all night according to the musical arrangement, even if they're always playing.

    Actually what's likely to be an important factor there is someone at the desk able to further separate using processing there. 

    You could actually hear all 4, the Acoustic was a bit lost but still there if you listened. It was basically the Acoustic Strumming chords, the LP was doing the rhythm with a slightly distorted tone, and both strats were full lead tones and they played together at points. 

    I think Stills also uses an Echoplex preamp and some sort of drive pedal which he kicked in during the solo. As far as I know Crosby doesn't use effects. 

    In sure there was some wizardry going on at the mixing desk, but it was surprising hole much separation there was. 
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