Car experts, help required...

proggy

Sporky said:

proggy said:

Sporky said:

proggy said:

Bloody Hell mate. My advice to you now is a part ex on a Toyota.

Remember to trade in all your clothes for beige slacks, shirts and cardigans too.

I was thinking more along the lines of one of those new Supras with the twin turbo V6 engine.

Ah, gotcha.

In which case add a pair of string-backed driving gloves.

Now you're talking.

boogieman

Let the engine run till the temp gauge gets up to normal or even better, till the fan kicks in. If the vapour is still there you've got a problem, otherwise if it's cleared then it's just water vapour from a cool engine. Tbh if the coolant level hasn't moved it's not likely to be a head gasket leak. 

Oh and good luck with the test. 

sinbaadi

Has the car had a decent run recently?

Warm it up, give it a few nice blips of the throttle, or better yet give it a proper run out.   See if it has changed at all.

digitalscream

sinbaadi said:

Has the car had a decent run recently?

Warm it up, give it a few nice blips of the throttle, or better yet give it a proper run out.   See if it has changed at all.

Nope - I'm still a learner, so I can't insure it properly without getting someone else insured etc. Also, the front brakes are seized (that should be fixed tomorrow, so I'll probably get my mate insured on it for a day and give it a blast then).

ESBlonde

As others have said if the car (and exhaust) don't reach operating temp then moisture collects there and will exit as steam. Old people that only ever pop to the local shops in thier car tend to find the exaust doesn't last because it rusts from the insine out. i think the idea of a new rad cap is a sensible insurance.

FX_Munkee

As all the others have said, water vapour is a natural byproduct. Stop worrying also you won't know anything until the car has been for a decently long drive. Just check the coolant levels before and after (cold!!!). My instinct is, if it's still running at 14 years old, it's not a lemon. Alternatively if you like the excitement of impending doom with your motoring I suggest you part ex it for an Alfa

digitalscream

FX_Munkee said:

As all the others have said, water vapour is a natural byproduct. Stop worrying also you won't know anything until the car has been for a decently long drive. Just check the coolant levels before and after (cold!!!). My instinct is, if it's still running at 14 years old, it's not a lemon. Alternatively if you like the excitement of impending doom with your motoring I suggest you part ex it for an Alfa

That's what I'm thinking - I went round all the MG forums obsessively before buying it, and the general feeling seems to be that a car that's survived to 114k miles is unlikely to fall victim to the common K-series problems.

However, to calm my paranoia - assuming tomorrow's examination doesn't throw up any red flags - I'll probably stick a bottle of K-Seal in the boot to get me out of the crap should it go.

chillidoggy

I wouldn't trust anything that's posted on forums, there's some proper numpties around.

Maynehead

Hang on, every car I've ever had blows out huge plumes of white steam first thing in the morning for the first 10 mins of the journey....

impmann

If there are no bubbles in the expansion bottle when you rev the car, then exhaust gases aren't getting into the coolant ergo there isn't any coolant getting into the exhaust.

If the car hasn't been run for a while water (which, as has been pointed out is a byproduct of combustion) collects in the exhaust and will escape as steam.

Ditto a little white/cream gunge around the oil filler cap (especially in winter) can be totally benign for the same reasons.

Just drive it and don't worry about the horror stories on the K-series. Its a weak point, but they don't just fail randomly or just because it hasn't been driven for a while.

digitalscream

impmann said:

If there are no bubbles in the expansion bottle when you rev the car, then exhaust gases aren't getting into the coolant ergo there isn't any coolant getting into the exhaust.

If the car hasn't been run for a while water (which, as has been pointed out is a byproduct of combustion) collects in the exhaust and will escape as steam.

Ditto a little white/cream gunge around the oil filler cap (especially in winter) can be totally benign for the same reasons.

Just drive it and don't worry about the horror stories on the K-series. Its a weak point, but they don't just fail randomly or just because it hasn't been driven for a while.

Thanks. However...they do occasionally get sold because they're about to fail

Still, not going to worry about it. Having a K-Seal bottle handy means I can probably get out of the shit anyway (if it does go and I'm miles from home), which was my main concern.

monquixote

If you drive an old beater car (as I do) you have to be of the mindset that something major might go bang and when it does you will possibly end up scrapping the car. 

If I was you I'd just get some "tow you home" breakdown cover and not worry about it.

impmann

digitalscream said:

impmann said:

If there are no bubbles in the expansion bottle when you rev the car, then exhaust gases aren't getting into the coolant ergo there isn't any coolant getting into the exhaust.

If the car hasn't been run for a while water (which, as has been pointed out is a byproduct of combustion) collects in the exhaust and will escape as steam.

Ditto a little white/cream gunge around the oil filler cap (especially in winter) can be totally benign for the same reasons.

Just drive it and don't worry about the horror stories on the K-series. Its a weak point, but they don't just fail randomly or just because it hasn't been driven for a while.

Thanks. However...they do occasionally get sold because they're about to fail

Still, not going to worry about it. Having a K-Seal bottle handy means I can probably get out of the shit anyway (if it does go and I'm miles from home), which was my main concern.

Hmmm.... there's a lot of mis-information about head gasket failure. A gasket is only a cushion between two mating surfaces and they rarely fail for no reason. Believe me, my other passion is Hillman Imps and I've worn every T-shirt there is regarding head gaskets...

I'm struggling to understand the comment about them getting sold as they are "about to fail" - if the cooling system is working 100%, then what notice would an owner have that the head gasket is about to go? Yes the K-series has a weakness because of the long head bolts and the movement that can happen - especially on engines that have been allowed to operate too hot. But I can't see how someone can offload a car just before the gasket fails unless there is an underlying fault.

The trouble with "magic potions" you pour into the cooling system is they can block up the cooling system. Flushing them out doesn't always shift them - I fixed a chap's Imp where 10 years earlier some rad weld or similar guff had been poured into the rad to mask some problems. I ended up having to replace the radiator *AND* strip the head/block to remove the congealed cack that had built up.

Just drive it - keep an eye on the temperature but I think you are worrying too much! :-) And don't believe *everything* you read on forums ;-)

digitalscream

impmann said:

I'm struggling to understand the comment about them getting sold as they are "about to fail" - if the cooling system is working 100%, then what notice would an owner have that the head gasket is about to go? Yes the K-series has a weakness because of the long head bolts and the movement that can happen - especially on engines that have been allowed to operate too hot. But I can't see how someone can offload a car just before the gasket fails unless there is an underlying fault.

The trouble with "magic potions" you pour into the cooling system is they can block up the cooling system. Flushing them out doesn't always shift them - I fixed a chap's Imp where 10 years earlier some rad weld or similar guff had been poured into the rad to mask some problems. I ended up having to replace the radiator *AND* strip the head/block to remove the congealed cack that had built up.

Just drive it - keep an eye on the temperature but I think you are worrying too much! :-) And don't believe *everything* you read on forums ;-)

With the K-series engines, it's usually caused by "placate the accountant" issues - like the plastic ball in the coolant valve instead of something sturdier - and there (apparently) tend to be signs that it's going.

The older magic potions like Radweld definitely had that problem, but K-Seal is somewhat different in that it won't fill any hole larger than 0.635mm - the test is ASTM D3147, apparently, which anything fails if it can't pass completely through a 0.85mm mesh with no residue.

It's still just a temporary fix (not as permanent as the marketing guff says it is), but a lot of people have used it to great effect on these engines.

EDIT: In any case, the fact that AA mechanics carry K-Seal everywhere gives me a little confidence; if using it gums up engines, they'd be getting sued left, right and centre

monquixote

A mechanic had a right go at me for using Radweld and said it was one of the worst things you could do to a car. 

No idea if he knew what he was talking about or not.

mike_l

monquixote said:

A mechanic had a right go at me for using Radweld and said it was one of the worst things you could do to a car. 

No idea if he knew what he was talking about or not.

Yeah, I've seen *a lot* of blocked heater matrixes from Radweld. I've also seen blocked coolant pipes and thermostats*. The worst was a destroyed water pump** (the impellor was totally fucked).

It a last option thing, and only if you're right in the shit.

Same for the tyre inflator foam canisters.

*Peugeot

**VW

digitalscream

OK, so the brakes are sorted (happy days), and the car actually handles pretty well now that it's got more "go" to it. Happy days.

We drove it for a good half hour, no white vapour in the exhaust, so I think we're good He did suggest that replacing the water pump might be a good idea at some point, preferably with an upgrade (ie more solid valve and metal impellor); he's seen a lot of K-series engines, and in his experience that's usually the component where a fault leads to gasket problems.

Nitefly

monquixote said:

A mechanic had a right go at me for using Radweld and said it was one of the worst things you could do to a car. 

No idea if he knew what he was talking about or not.

LOL my late father in law used to recommend dropping an egg in the radiator...

Emp_Fab

Jesus, you're a worrier aren't you !  Just drive the damn thing.  You need to concentrate more on your test than the car you happen to have at the moment.

paulnb57

I would suggest, if it hasn't jad a proper run, then there is nothing to worry about, the steam is normal from a cold engine, sometimes if following a cold car, water can be seen dripping from the exhaust, thats why short run car exhausts rot quickly, from the inside out...coolant level wont drop, ticking over on the drive....
Once on the road, reasses.......

Oh, and good luck with the test!