Boss MS-3 Multi-Effects Loop Switcher just announced...

english_bob

Drew_TNBD said:

Trude said:

Doesn't seem to support 4CM unless I'm missing something?  

You could use one of the FX loops to do 4cm I think.

I think that's the only way you could. 

Trouble is, you've then only got two loops for external effects, which doesn't seem like a lot when the whole idea of this thing is that it's part GT-x multi-fx and part ES-x loop switcher. 

If it still had all the amp sims on board it would be easier to look at it as the brains for some sort of Helix-like FRFR system with the majority of the processing happening "in the box" and the amp as just a "make-louder", but it doesn't. That makes it seem like it's meant to integrate with an amp, and that makes the fact that it doesn't have a way to do 4CM connections without eating up a chunk of it's pedal switching capacity a bit disappointing.

Meh, any time you spend this sort of money on something this complicated it's likely to be to achieve something fairly specific and fairly complex, so if it doesn't do what you have in mind you buy something different.

Drew_TNBD

english_bob said:

Drew_TNBD said:

Trude said:

Doesn't seem to support 4CM unless I'm missing something?  

You could use one of the FX loops to do 4cm I think.

I think that's the only way you could. 

Trouble is, you've then only got two loops for external effects, which doesn't seem like a lot when the whole idea of this thing is that it's part GT-x multi-fx and part ES-x loop switcher. 

If it still had all the amp sims on board it would be easier to look at it as the brains for some sort of Helix-like FRFR system with the majority of the processing happening "in the box" and the amp as just a "make-louder", but it doesn't. That makes it seem like it's meant to integrate with an amp, and that makes the fact that it doesn't have a way to do 4CM connections without eating up a chunk of it's pedal switching capacity a bit disappointing.

Meh, any time you spend this sort of money on something this complicated it's likely to be to achieve something fairly specific and fairly complex, so if it doesn't do what you have in mind you buy something different.

For a good chunk of people out there I think two loops, 4-cable-method with an amp, plus midi control over the amp and any other pedals you've got.... pretty much all they need!

Off the top of my head if I put this in my fantasty setup:

- EVH5150III 50-watter, Diezel VH4 or D-Moll in the 1st FX loop
- Strymon Timeline before the MS3 controlled by midi from it too
- Amp controlled by midi from the MS3
- In the case of the 5150III 50-watter, I can bring in a volume attenuator any time I switch to the blue channel to correct the volume jump built into the amp
- My favourite phaser pedal in the 2nd FX loop
- Source Audio Nemesis Delay in the 3rd FX loop controlled by midi too
- Use one of the built in boosts for a solo boost, or to saturate the 2nd channel on the amp a bit more
- External footswitch setup as global tap tempo, which taps the internal effects as well as midi clock to the other delays
- Use a built in reverb so I don't need to have a dedicated reverb pedal
- Presumably you can bypass the Nemesis and Timeline

Basically I see it as you'd end up using the built in effects except in cases where you want something very special. Much like the Helix I suppose. What kind of attracts me to this is the size.

colourofsound

Sorry, what's 4CM?

digitalscream

colourofsound said:

Sorry, what's 4CM?

4 Cable Method - when you use an effects unit with a loop along with an amp with a loop, you can arrange the signal chain so that some effects are before the amp's preamp, and some are after it (ie in the amp's effects loop). You can also replace the amp's preamp entirely with something from the effects unit if it's a modeller.

Drew_TNBD

colourofsound said:

Sorry, what's 4CM?

4-cable-method. It allows you to connect a multi-fx up so that you can put some effects before the amp and some effects after the amp. So you can do the thing where you have a wah and a fuzz in front of the amp, and a delay and reverb after the amp.

colourofsound

Ahh gotcha. Never heard it referred to as that before!

digitalscream

Bazinga! Too slow, Drew...

monquixote

That looks like a great product. 
I was looking to do a similar thing with the GT-100 at one point, but it didn't have enough IO and was too big. This would nail it.

colourofsound

So assuming these are GT-100 algos - how do they sound?

digitalscream

monquixote said:

That looks like a great product. 
I was looking to do a similar thing with the GT-100 at one point, but it didn't have enough IO and was too big. This would nail it.

Indeed. I think people are thinking about it wrong - it's not an ES-8 with effects, it's more of a cut-down GT-100 with loops. Put in that context, it suddenly makes a hell of a lot more sense: use the effects that are built-in, and add stuff in the loops when the built-in stuff doesn't cut it.

colourofsound

I hope an MS-5 or MS-8 is in the works

english_bob

colourofsound said:

I hope an MS-5 or MS-8 is in the works

 In light of @digitalscream's comment, I doubt they will. I agree, it makes more sense to see it as a GT-series processor with more I/O rather than an ES-series switcher with effects. Why would you provide a player with a whole bunch of your own effects then give them enough loop switching capacity not to have to use any of them?

Price-wise, the MS-3 is (probably) close to the ES-5 already, so I imagine it as something for a player who doesn't think the ES-5 is quite right for them. Or indeed for someone like @monquixote who wants a smaller GT-100 with more I/Os.

sgosden

@digital_Igloo - L6 should make something similar - but with helix algos and easy 4CM  

colourofsound

english_bob said:

colourofsound said:

I hope an MS-5 or MS-8 is in the works

 In light of @digitalscream's comment, I doubt they will. I agree, it makes more sense to see it as a GT-series processor with more I/O rather than an ES-series switcher with effects. Why would you provide a player with a whole bunch of your own effects then give them enough loop switching capacity not to have to use any of them?

Price-wise, the MS-3 is (probably) close to the ES-5 already, so I imagine it as something for a player who doesn't think the ES-5 is quite right for them. Or indeed for someone like @monquixote who wants a smaller GT-100 with more I/Os.

From my point of view having 5 or 6 loops plus in built effects would save me from having a board of 10 pedals. I have a couple of pedals which I only use for like 6 bars in one song for example. So having 5 loops would allow me to have 2 drives, fuzz, analog delay and analog phaser, and then use the built in effects on a per-song basis as and when I need them.

The MS-3 promises something which I feel could potentially fall short depending on your preferences.

Thats the key point though - everyone's preferences are different. I think Boss are stepping in the right direction for users who want a hybrid approach.

digitalscream

colourofsound said:

english_bob said:

colourofsound said:

I hope an MS-5 or MS-8 is in the works

 In light of @digitalscream's comment, I doubt they will. I agree, it makes more sense to see it as a GT-series processor with more I/O rather than an ES-series switcher with effects. Why would you provide a player with a whole bunch of your own effects then give them enough loop switching capacity not to have to use any of them?

Price-wise, the MS-3 is (probably) close to the ES-5 already, so I imagine it as something for a player who doesn't think the ES-5 is quite right for them. Or indeed for someone like @monquixote who wants a smaller GT-100 with more I/Os.

From my point of view having 5 or 6 loops plus in built effects would save me from having a board of 10 pedals. I have a couple of pedals which I only use for like 6 bars in one song for example. So having 5 loops would allow me to have 2 drives, fuzz, analog delay and analog phaser, and then use the built in effects on a per-song basis as and when I need them.

The MS-3 promises something which I feel could potentially fall short depending on your preferences.

Thats the key point though - everyone's preferences are different. I think Boss are stepping in the right direction for users who want a hybrid approach.

In that case, the obvious approach is to try one of these and see if you like the built-in fuzz/delay/phaser (Boss digital drives are usually shit) - if you like any two of those, then the MS-3 is probably your baby.

english_bob

Alternatively, an ES-5 with a small, MIDI capable multi-effect in one of the loops might do it without driving the price .

Line 6 M5 (OK, it isn't that small), or the Zoom MultiStomps can do MIDI-via-USB I think...

FWIW, I don't think the MS-3 has spillover on the external loops, while the ES-5 does.

colourofsound

english_bob said:

Alternatively, an ES-5 with a small, MIDI capable multi-effect in one of the loops might do it without driving the price .

Line 6 M5 (OK, it isn't that small), or the Zoom MultiStomps can do MIDI-via-USB I think...

FWIW, I don't think the MS-3 has spillover on the external loops, while the ES-5 does.

Yeah, thats the sort of setup I'm going for at the moment, and whilst the MS-3 is really exciting I don't think it changes much for me.

monquixote

digitalscream said:

colourofsound said:

english_bob said:

colourofsound said:

I hope an MS-5 or MS-8 is in the works

 In light of @digitalscream's comment, I doubt they will. I agree, it makes more sense to see it as a GT-series processor with more I/O rather than an ES-series switcher with effects. Why would you provide a player with a whole bunch of your own effects then give them enough loop switching capacity not to have to use any of them?

Price-wise, the MS-3 is (probably) close to the ES-5 already, so I imagine it as something for a player who doesn't think the ES-5 is quite right for them. Or indeed for someone like @monquixote who wants a smaller GT-100 with more I/Os.

From my point of view having 5 or 6 loops plus in built effects would save me from having a board of 10 pedals. I have a couple of pedals which I only use for like 6 bars in one song for example. So having 5 loops would allow me to have 2 drives, fuzz, analog delay and analog phaser, and then use the built in effects on a per-song basis as and when I need them.

The MS-3 promises something which I feel could potentially fall short depending on your preferences.

Thats the key point though - everyone's preferences are different. I think Boss are stepping in the right direction for users who want a hybrid approach.

In that case, the obvious approach is to try one of these and see if you like the built-in fuzz/delay/phaser (Boss digital drives are usually shit) - if you like any two of those, then the MS-3 is probably your baby.

I'd have Koji, Peacekeeper, Warthog in the loops and then use the GT for delay, reverb, mod. The Suhr can relay switch so you could even have more pedals if you wanted.

The GT-100 had the MDP Adaptive Drive which is actually quite good.

EricTheWeary

sgosden said:

That look awesome!!!!

literally what I expected Line 6 to be putting out to replace the M series.

is there a release date? this may have shaken up my little/backup board plans!

Exactly this, the Line 6 equivalent of the M3 with Helix level effects. Although no such concept might even exist at Line 6.

jamiexsilver

Bloody hell I want one!, I was going to get a es5, but getting one of these means I'd be able to get rid of half my board. One of those and my H9 I doubt I'd need any more fx for a long time.

just hope it's not shit!