What DAW are you using, and how would you review it?

IMC1980

Snap said:

IMC1980 said:

Snap said:

HAve you used any of the new multiband and EQ that have just been bundled> the VST3 ones? They are good, but I think they are quite heavy on resources. Sound brill though.

The LP MB and EQ? I used the LP EQ on a guitar bus in M/S configuration, helped to add some sparkle to some dull acoustic recordings. Not used the multiband or the new adaptive limiter yet, but will probably use them on the master bus for demos. 

Yes, those. The adaptive limiter is really good. Very impressed with it. All three of them are very good tbh, I like them a lot.

It frustrates me how Sonar is overlooked by the music mags: I had a sub to Computer Music, and there was rarely anyting in there specific to Sonar, musdt be down to popularity I suppose

I used it because a copy of Sonar 8.5 LE came with a Boss ME25 I bought a few years back and it was the DAW that my band mate had always used. I never planned on doing anything more than recording riffs so I could hear my left and right guitar ideas at the same time, but I went down the rabbit hole!

Sonar does seem to be behind in the popularity stakes; it seems to get more love in Sound On Sound due to Craig Anderton's regular columns - worth checking out their article archive if you haven't already, he has some great sonar techniques that work in the current versions - but feels like a bit of a less well known DAW. It is a shame as I do love using it and it is very powerful, with the new plugins it looks like they have covered the mastering aspect as well.

octatonic

IMC1980 said:

I used it because a copy of Sonar 8.5 LE came with a Boss ME25 I bought a few years back and it was the DAW that my band mate had always used. I never planned on doing anything more than recording riffs so I could hear my left and right guitar ideas at the same time, but I went down the rabbit hole!

Sonar does seem to be behind in the popularity stakes; it seems to get more love in Sound On Sound due to Craig Anderton's regular columns - worth checking out their article archive if you haven't already, he has some great sonar techniques that work in the current versions - but feels like a bit of a less well known DAW. It is a shame as I do love using it and it is very powerful, with the new plugins it looks like they have covered the mastering aspect as well.

There is usually a good reason why a particular DAW doesn't get a lot of use, especially in pro circles.
How do you, for instance, set up cue mixes for, say, 8 people in Sonar?
The practical need is when you are recording a whole band at once the members of the band all what different headphone mixes.
You can do this very easily in Pro Tools (especially HD/HDX), almost as easily in Logic Pro X.
How would you do it in Sonar? (I've never used it, just asking the question).

Grunfeld

IMC1980 said:

Sonar does seem to be behind in the popularity stakes.... It is a shame as I do love using it and it is very powerful, with the new plugins it looks like they have covered the mastering aspect as well.

I really loved Sonar.  Used it v.3 - v.6 and was, for me, happily creative in that time.  I just connected with it as a DAW.
Then it went a bit mental for me around v.8 and wouldn't get on with my system for some reason so I was compelled to use something else and that was Reaper.
And I just kind of stuck with Reaper as it is awesome value for money.  However, I've never really connected with it like I did with Sonar.  I always think of Sonar as when I had fun!
I couldn't for the life of me say why.  They do the same thing, more or less.  I kind of feel I should try Sonar again and see if it makes any difference to my creative output.

guitarfishbay

AvalonAndy said:

I have used FL, Pro Tools (HD & M-Powered), Cubase and Logic.  For me, the desired result of recording is to get a great-sounding mix.  Switching DAW isn't going to make your mix sound any better.  They all do the same thing slightly differently.  The only thing that's going to happen is that you're going to spend money and a huge amount of time mastering the new DAW.   
I'm not saying it's a terrible idea to switch, I was just telling you what he said, but personally, if I had mastered a particular DAW, I wouldn't waste my time chasing the rainbow.

I watched his video.

I disagree it takes a long time to learn a new DAW, key commands can be changed, and many people have 3rd party plugins they use instead of stock plugins anyway.  The metering is a fair point - that threw me initially in Studio One, but if you work with enough headroom it really isn't a problem anyway.

He also seems pretty focused on the mixing aspect, which I won't dispute there probably isn't enough difference based on mixing alone.  

However he missed the point that tracking is generally what takes the most time and is definitely the most important.  I honestly believe that there are better options for tracking and editing (real) instruments than Logic, especially when it comes to drums.  Having slip edit for comping is a superior way to work vs Flex Time/trying to use marquee copy paste within a take folder - it took me 2 weeks to be faster at tracking and comping on the fly in Studio One than in Logic, and I've used Logic for about 10 years.  Yes I'm getting the same end result - and it is faster because of the way the programs work.

Honestly I was concerned about all the points he raised in the video, and I found the opposite to be true - it was easier than I expected to get a noticeable improvement in workflow and I wish I'd done it sooner.

IMC1980

octatonic said:

IMC1980 said:

I used it because a copy of Sonar 8.5 LE came with a Boss ME25 I bought a few years back and it was the DAW that my band mate had always used. I never planned on doing anything more than recording riffs so I could hear my left and right guitar ideas at the same time, but I went down the rabbit hole!

Sonar does seem to be behind in the popularity stakes; it seems to get more love in Sound On Sound due to Craig Anderton's regular columns - worth checking out their article archive if you haven't already, he has some great sonar techniques that work in the current versions - but feels like a bit of a less well known DAW. It is a shame as I do love using it and it is very powerful, with the new plugins it looks like they have covered the mastering aspect as well.

There is usually a good reason why a particular DAW doesn't get a lot of use, especially in pro circles.
How do you, for instance, set up cue mixes for, say, 8 people in Sonar?
The practical need is when you are recording a whole band at once the members of the band all what different headphone mixes.
You can do this very easily in Pro Tools (especially HD/HDX), almost as easily in Logic Pro X.
How would you do it in Sonar? (I've never used it, just asking the question).

I have not had to do this, but if I needed to, I would insert a stereo bus for each headphone mix, insert sends from each track needed for the headphone mix and route the bus output to the headphone output.

Not sure how that compares to Logic and Pro Tools.

guitarfishbay

Well my Cubase Demo expired.  To save a really long post nobody wants to read I've just decided to stick with S1 and Logic.

I solved one of the main issues I have with Studio 1 which is Crossfade length.  I've made a Macro for a 5ms total Cross Fade and that seems to work.  I'll be editing some drums tomorrow so will see how it goes.  I couldn't work out how to make it create crossfade on split the way I'd want it to work - as in give me the split tool cursor which won't initiate split and crossfade until I click, so I can line up the ruler with the mouse as I go.  I could make a Macro for split at cursor (where it is placed) and apply cross fade but I find this slower.

Drew_TNBD

As part of my job I have to be proficient in all the major DAWs. But I oscillate between Reaper, Studio One, and Logic. There is stuff that each of them gives me that none of the others do. I do use Cubase occasionally too, but only really for intensive midi work. After that I export the midi into one of the other DAWs and proceed from there.

What I like about Reaper is the customization. It comes at a hefty price though - takes ages to get it setup the way you want. I've pretty much cloned all of the Studio One functionality that I need though, and written a few scripts to help me. If you can write LUA scripts, Reaper can do almost anything you want.

But it doesn't feel like a "creative" environment. Logic really does feel creative to use. Studio One is kind of a half-way house between the two.

Placidcasual79

Drew_TNBD said:

As part of my job I have to be proficient in all the major DAWs. But I oscillate between Reaper, Studio One, and Logic. There is stuff that each of them gives me that none of the others do. I do use Cubase occasionally too, but only really for intensive midi work. After that I export the midi into one of the other DAWs and proceed from there.

What I like about Reaper is the customization. It comes at a hefty price though - takes ages to get it setup the way you want. I've pretty much cloned all of the Studio One functionality that I need though, and written a few scripts to help me. If you can write LUA scripts, Reaper can do almost anything you want.

But it doesn't feel like a "creative" environment. Logic really does feel creative to use. Studio One is kind of a half-way house between the two.

Interesting stuff @Drew_TNBD - you're experienced with a lot of DAWs - quick question if you don't mind.... I am just starting to get my head round my first - Logic - only ever used an 8 track before. Any tips on how to learn Logic? There aren't any shortcuts I suppose?

guitarfishbay

I'd watch a structured tutorial such as the one on Groove3

It won't cover everything but it'll give you an overview and will give you enough knowledge to get going.

My next suggestion is to learn key commands for transport and basic functions that you're happy with (don't feel you have to keep the defaults, set it up so it suits you). Using the mouse for everything can get a bit slow, everyone finds their own workflow in the end though.

If you get stuck there are quite a few Logic users here plus it's a common DAW so there will be plenty of knowledgable posters on recording focused forums 

octatonic

Placidcasual79 said:

Drew_TNBD said:

As part of my job I have to be proficient in all the major DAWs. But I oscillate between Reaper, Studio One, and Logic. There is stuff that each of them gives me that none of the others do. I do use Cubase occasionally too, but only really for intensive midi work. After that I export the midi into one of the other DAWs and proceed from there.

What I like about Reaper is the customization. It comes at a hefty price though - takes ages to get it setup the way you want. I've pretty much cloned all of the Studio One functionality that I need though, and written a few scripts to help me. If you can write LUA scripts, Reaper can do almost anything you want.

But it doesn't feel like a "creative" environment. Logic really does feel creative to use. Studio One is kind of a half-way house between the two.

Interesting stuff @Drew_TNBD - you're experienced with a lot of DAWs - quick question if you don't mind.... I am just starting to get my head round my first - Logic - only ever used an 8 track before. Any tips on how to learn Logic? There aren't any shortcuts I suppose?

Just use it- there is no faster way to leaner something than to use it.

Beyond knowing where stuff is and what can be done with it you are then into mixing methodology.
For instance, using side chain for compression to allow the bass guitar to get out of the way of the kick.
It isn't really any different to do in Logic or Pro Tools, it is just a slightly different interface.

THIS is quite good.

Placidcasual79

octatonic said:

Just use it- there is no faster way to leaner something than to use it.

Beyond knowing where stuff is and what can be done with it you are then into mixing methodology.
For instance, using side chain for compression to allow the bass guitar to get out of the way of the kick.
It isn't really any different to do in Logic or Pro Tools, it is just a slightly different interface.

THIS is quite good.

Thanks @octatonic - My recording output has decreased dramatically since I sold my eight track (and admittedly joined a band). I feel like Logic/using a DAW is some insurmountable block. I guess I just need to get on with it. 

I'll have a look at the book. 

octatonic

Placidcasual79 said:

octatonic said:

Just use it- there is no faster way to leaner something than to use it.

Beyond knowing where stuff is and what can be done with it you are then into mixing methodology.
For instance, using side chain for compression to allow the bass guitar to get out of the way of the kick.
It isn't really any different to do in Logic or Pro Tools, it is just a slightly different interface.

THIS is quite good.

Thanks @octatonic - My recording output has decreased dramatically since I sold my eight track (and admittedly joined a band). I feel like Logic/using a DAW is some insurmountable block. I guess I just need to get on with it. 

I'll have a look at the book. 

No worries.
I'n a former beta-tester of Logic and I've been using it since the 80's so for me it is like writing on paper.
I have to think more when using other DAW's.
It is actually quite logical in how it is set out but it approaches certain things from a unique perspective (such as pan law).

I do tutor people in Logic/Pro Tools and production/eingineering as well, but you are quite far away from me (I'm in Oxfordshire).

Placidcasual79

No worries.
I'n a former beta-tester of Logic and I've been using it since the 80's so for me it is like writing on paper.
I have to think more when using other DAW's.
It is actually quite logical in how it is set out but it approaches certain things from a unique perspective (such as pan law).

I do tutor people in Logic/Pro Tools and production/eingineering as well, but you are quite far away from me (I'm in Oxfordshire).

Thanks @octatonic I just need to put some time a side and dig in. I really like to be tutored - but Oxfordshire is a fair walk from North Wales. 

I've actually tried knocking on the door of some local studios in the hope of finding an engineer who give me lessons for a couple of quid but no luck so far. 

octatonic

Placidcasual79 said:

No worries.
I'n a former beta-tester of Logic and I've been using it since the 80's so for me it is like writing on paper.
I have to think more when using other DAW's.
It is actually quite logical in how it is set out but it approaches certain things from a unique perspective (such as pan law).

I do tutor people in Logic/Pro Tools and production/eingineering as well, but you are quite far away from me (I'm in Oxfordshire).

Thanks @octatonic I just need to put some time a side and dig in. I really like to be tutored - but Oxfordshire is a fair walk from North Wales. 

I've actually tried knocking on the door of some local studios in the hope of finding an engineer who give me lessons for a couple of quid but no luck so far. 

You'd be looking at least £25 an hour from anyone who knows what they are doing.

Honestly just give yourself some tasks with it.
If you were able to use your 8 track then just try to do some of the things you would do with that.
The Logic mixer is much, much more capable than you can imagine.

You could have 128 tracks with 64 busses all routed to 24 out and not be close to exhausting the digital routing options.
My advice is start small- design a 24 track project with 3 fx busses (two reverb, one delay) and try to mix with it.

Placidcasual79

octatonic said:

Placidcasual79 said:

No worries.
I'n a former beta-tester of Logic and I've been using it since the 80's so for me it is like writing on paper.
I have to think more when using other DAW's.
It is actually quite logical in how it is set out but it approaches certain things from a unique perspective (such as pan law).

I do tutor people in Logic/Pro Tools and production/eingineering as well, but you are quite far away from me (I'm in Oxfordshire).

Thanks @octatonic I just need to put some time a side and dig in. I really like to be tutored - but Oxfordshire is a fair walk from North Wales. 

I've actually tried knocking on the door of some local studios in the hope of finding an engineer who give me lessons for a couple of quid but no luck so far. 

You'd be looking at least £25 an hour from anyone who knows what they are doing.

Honestly just give yourself some tasks with it.
If you were able to use your 8 track then just try to do some of the things you would do with that.
The Logic mixer is much, much more capable than you can imagine.

You could have 128 tracks with 64 busses all routed to 24 out and not be close to exhausting the digital routing options.
My advice is start small- design a 24 track project with 3 fx busses (two reverb, one delay) and try to mix with it.

That seems like an entirely reasonable price - at least I'd be happy to pay it to get me started. The whole DAW thing is intimidating to me - so much to technical stuff to learn - but I wanted to do so much more than the 8 track would let me. 

I might try local guitar teachers - see if any of them use Logic. 

Drew_TNBD

Placidcasual79 said:

Drew_TNBD said:

As part of my job I have to be proficient in all the major DAWs. But I oscillate between Reaper, Studio One, and Logic. There is stuff that each of them gives me that none of the others do. I do use Cubase occasionally too, but only really for intensive midi work. After that I export the midi into one of the other DAWs and proceed from there.

What I like about Reaper is the customization. It comes at a hefty price though - takes ages to get it setup the way you want. I've pretty much cloned all of the Studio One functionality that I need though, and written a few scripts to help me. If you can write LUA scripts, Reaper can do almost anything you want.

But it doesn't feel like a "creative" environment. Logic really does feel creative to use. Studio One is kind of a half-way house between the two.

Interesting stuff @Drew_TNBD - you're experienced with a lot of DAWs - quick question if you don't mind.... I am just starting to get my head round my first - Logic - only ever used an 8 track before. Any tips on how to learn Logic? There aren't any shortcuts I suppose?

As Guitarfishbay says, Groove3 tutorials. They're very well structured and will not cost you a lot of money. Don't do any of those 'certified' courses you see online. They're a bit of a rip off. I just came across one that charges over $2000 for 9 months training in Logic - ludicrous!!! The program is a piece of piss to use.

octatonic

Drew_TNBD said:

Placidcasual79 said:

Drew_TNBD said:

As part of my job I have to be proficient in all the major DAWs. But I oscillate between Reaper, Studio One, and Logic. There is stuff that each of them gives me that none of the others do. I do use Cubase occasionally too, but only really for intensive midi work. After that I export the midi into one of the other DAWs and proceed from there.

What I like about Reaper is the customization. It comes at a hefty price though - takes ages to get it setup the way you want. I've pretty much cloned all of the Studio One functionality that I need though, and written a few scripts to help me. If you can write LUA scripts, Reaper can do almost anything you want.

But it doesn't feel like a "creative" environment. Logic really does feel creative to use. Studio One is kind of a half-way house between the two.

Interesting stuff @Drew_TNBD - you're experienced with a lot of DAWs - quick question if you don't mind.... I am just starting to get my head round my first - Logic - only ever used an 8 track before. Any tips on how to learn Logic? There aren't any shortcuts I suppose?

As Guitarfishbay says, Groove3 tutorials. They're very well structured and will not cost you a lot of money. Don't do any of those 'certified' courses you see online. They're a bit of a rip off. I just came across one that charges over $2000 for 9 months training in Logic - ludicrous!!! The program is a piece of piss to use.

Agree.
I find that people who can't get it off the ground themselves need 2-3 lessons to get to grips of it and then they are off.
The most number I've lessons I've given anyone on Logic is 5 and that was only to understand how to design a midi controller in the environment, not something people do much of these days.

bloodandtears

I'm hoping to have some time to dip back into into this again...I used to use FL, Cakewalk and Cubase years ago.. all on windows... along Adobe Audition.. but I honestly can't remember what my last tool of choice was...

I'm on Linux Ubuntu these days, so just thrown Tracktion 5 on although not had time to investigate it... I was hoping to get it working with Dexed and some other Bass, Drum vsts to get me going.. but it didn't seem a smooth start (Dexed .so file failed to initiate lol) ... any pointers much appreciated.

digitalscream

bloodandtears said:

I'm hoping to have some time to dip back into into this again...I used to use FL, Cakewalk and Cubase years ago.. all on windows... along Adobe Audition.. but I honestly can't remember what my last tool of choice was...

I'm on Linux Ubuntu these days, so just thrown Tracktion 5 on although not had time to investigate it... I was hoping to get it working with Dexed and some other Bass, Drum vsts to get me going.. but it didn't seem a smooth start (Dexed .so file failed to initiate lol) ... any pointers much appreciated.

I've no idea about Traktion, but...have you tried Reaper under WINE? Might have more luck there.

Surprisingly, I discovered that Studio One 3 apparently works under WINE too, although I haven't tried it.

I do have Harrison Mixbus installed natively, but the problem with it is that the native Linux version doesn't support VSTs, only LV2. There are a ton of LV2 plugins around, obviously, but it's a bit of a pig when all I want to do is use BFD3...that would mean writing it in Reaper and then copying across to Mixbus for mixing. Bah.

Snap

My problem with capability is that I have learned on the fly, within the limits of what I want to do. So, I probably only use 10% of what Sonar can do. I probably do a load of stuff inefficiently and no doubt introduce crap that doesn't need to be there, or could be done with a far lower CPU load. I'm recording stuff in the same way I did 20 years ago, or more. My issue is time: I don't have a lot of it, and when I get the creative buzz I just want to get it recorded.

Really I should go through some tutorials - there is a huge archive on Cakewalk's site, but I just don't have the time at all. Massively frustrating.

Same goes for synthesis. Sit me infront of a minimoog, a polymoog, a Juno, or Korg Polysix (alol the stuff I used when I was in a regular band in err......the mid 80s) and I'd be fine. Give me Massive, and it takes me a tad longer. I love it all, but I wish I had more time.