How should I go about writing songs?

RockerRocker Frets: 4941
Might be a daft question but a few members of our little group are interested in writing and playing our own material.  Or a few songs at any rate.  So how should I go about making a start?  Lyrics first or chord progressions.........

New territory to me so thanks for any suggestions....
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

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Comments

  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10356
    edited June 2017
    Try finding 4 chords that go together well, maybe changing one chord to another every bar. Then try whistling or humming a melody over the top until you find something that fits well and sounds melodic
    Once you got that try finding some lyrics to sing instead of the whistling \ humming. You might write a whole verse but only like one line but if you keep replacing the bad stuff with better stuff your end up with some decent lyrics 

    That's your basic start, then there's endless things you can do to embellish a song, riffs as intro's, arrangement breakdowns, time sig \ tempo changes etc. 

    One of the best ways to learn is to analyse other songs. Take something like U2's With or Without you .... it;s the same 4 chords again and again but the vocal delivery changes and the arrangement changes  to complete a classic song from something very simple
    Take a song like lying Eyes... now the chords are simple enough and the arrangement is straightforward and all the spotlight is on the message and story in the vocals ..... 

    Take a song like Don't fear the reaper .... this is a riff based song, a killer riff which they build the song around (essentially 3 simple chords) and then embelish with harmonies and the strange  Avent guard bit but the songs all about the riff

    Whatever you do remember your early attempts probably won't be great but every time you write it will get better
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  • VeganicVeganic Frets: 673
    edited June 2017
    Song writing is dead easy.  Unfortunately writing good songs people want to listen to is difficult.

    Fortunately the path to the 2nd can start with the first.

    I find that singing over a chord progression is easier than fitting chords to a melody. Some people are just naturals at it.  

    Here are a few exercises to try:

    Visit hooktheory, pick a progression, sing.

    The Sorry I haven't a clue method. Play one song, try to sing sing the words to another.  

    Go on a guitar chord site, choose a song you don't know, try to make a song out of it.

    It may all sound shit, derivative and throwaway but the only way to write songs is to write songs.

    Edit: Confession, I can't do it, but have seen it done, it can look miraculous in it's simplicity, sometimes.



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  • Moe_ZambeekMoe_Zambeek Frets: 3419
    edited June 2017
    I often start with a little riff or progression, usually from noodling, then build it up from there. Oftentimes a fragment of lyric starts off a thought process and a melody or chord progression suggests itself...sometimes a particular mood takes you when you're playing and ends up being channelled somehow. 

    Taking all all of those bits and pieces and making listenable songs is bloody hard though! Personally these days I prefer to work with a partner, I come up with the above, the singer might snag a melody and a vocal hook then we work it through from there.

    in band terms, same as above but what I really like with a band is finding hooks to sit in the song structure. Great fun. Nothing in the world (almost) compares to the feeling of a tight band creating in realtime and everyone being on the same page musically. It's an amazing feeling to pull a song from the ether and see and hear it solidify.
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  • LestratcasterLestratcaster Frets: 1079
    There's no right or wrong way or a tried and tested formula. We all have our own ways that work the best and its up to you to find the best method.

    Since we're guitar players (most of us anyway) we tend to use that as the tool to write with, so be it a riff or a chord progression there's your start point. I've usually always written music first and then added vocal melodies after though you can do it the other way round, I find this harder though, in fact.

    Some of the best ideas I have aren't planned or forced. I never sit down and go "right I'm going to write a song right now..." sometimes I'll be doing something else e.g practicing someone else's song and I'll get inspired and come up with my own riff or chord pattern.
    Sometimes I'll be randomly jamming around and stumble across something I think sounds cool.

    The most important thing when this happens though is to RECORD it. Doesn't have to be top quality, all smartphones have a voice recorder on it. Just get it down and play it back after.
    Though to be fair if its a good riff/chord progression its worth remembering, if its shit then you probably won't remember it!

    Also don't worry if you can't write the whole song in one go, some of the songs I've written have been a month writing process as you're trying to link the sections well or figure out another part that works, or even some songs have been bits of other song ideas that weren't used, so its been pieced together.
    Always record your progress and listen back, then critique it. If you're in a band environment and the momentum is rolling just get something down, record and analyse later. I've been in bands where you're so critical of anything you write nothing gets done and its frustrating. If something sounds alright go with it until something better comes along (which might not be at that moment). 
    Sometimes I'll be subconsciously doing something else and won't even have my guitar on me and I'll think of a part or something that could fit. Weird but sometimes it works when I'm away from the band.

    I try to write hooky or catchy stuff, usually something you can sing. The amount of times we've packed down after practices and someone's singing the guitar riff or whatever means its stuck in their head which is a good thing.

    And I'll echo the point in listening to other people's songs too, not to rip them off or cover it, just to get ideas on how they do it.

    Hope you find a method that works, good luck!
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  • EricTheWearyEricTheWeary Frets: 16253
    People who write songs tend to write a lot of them before they get anything that's a keeper. There isn't a single method either. 

    I think what Danny says is a pretty typical approach - get a riff or groove going and hum a melody over the top and then put words to that. Certainly for pop and rock, bit different if you're Andrew Lloyd Webber. 

    Veganic reminded me of a thing I read with Gene Simmons who said every early Kiss song was based on someone else's song - they'd learn a riff they like and move the chords around until it sounded different but okay and then create a melody on top of that. May not be the greatest songs ever written but they sold a lot of records! 
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  • spark240spark240 Frets: 2073
    edited June 2017
    This has got me thinking...are our songs " and good" ?

    My pal writes the basic chord structures and lyrics and melody, we might discuss those and make some minor changes but not much.

    I then come up with some guitars parts, backing synths, percussion, Bass as well as record a produce it, I would probably suggest any backing vox or harmonies as well.

    This is how we work, I will listen to his structures on my own and play loads of different types of riffs using different sounds, sometimes and idea comes quick , other times I leave it for days and come back to it, I the think about building the songs, adding some percussion, or similar to 2nd verses, bridges etc to make them stand out, also use of backing vocals can really change the dynamic of a song, 

    So...take a quick listen to a 30 secs and decide, forget the style, quality etc, is it in your opinion " a good song" ?

    Think about why you like / dislike it and apply it to your own material, or post your basic ideas and let the masses decide if YOUR songs are any good !

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  • I like to think in old school terms. So a block of 8 for intro. Then into the verse. A pretty chorus then into the chorus. 

    By a Beatles chords book. They are masters. 

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  • Hi Rocker :)

    I agree with a lot of the points covered on here already.

    I have a few rules whenever I write lyrics, none are set in stone! (Here's one of my songs for reference: )

    1) Choruses translate better when they are simple to hear and sing.

    2) Logical songwriting is less interesting. What I mean is if you try and tell a story just from memory, the chances are it will be boring.

    Lateral Thinking techniques help you write from different perspectives. Read up on Edward DeBono for more info. 
    My bassist started talking about Alexander The Great whilst we working on lyrics. I know nothing about ATG, so there's no way I could use my bassist's perspective...

    The song we were writing was about doing what you need to do, and ATG kicked a lot of ass taking over the world! 

    3) Write down an idea even if it's rubbish. You can then move on to the next idea. Also, sound out your lyrics to the rest of your band to see if they like it. If your band likes it, your fans will probably like it too.

    4) Sometimes a lyric idea is so unlike what you've heard before. If idea's meaning is relevant to the song, You should probably use it :)

    5) Once you have a ton of ideas out, you can start arranging them together, like jigsaw pieces. Use your intuition to judge which pieces should go where

    6) Having a concrete idea for what you want to say is important, use the above techniques to find the most powerful and original way to say it.

    7) Framing your story: 

    First verse establishes character, plot and problem (Guy wants to win). 
    Chorus gives the listeners something to remember the story by (I'm a Winner).
    Second Verse adds more to the story (Guy is winning more). 
    2nd Chorus. (I'm a Winner) 
    Middle 8s usually have a resolution but that's the beauty of creativity and storytelling(Guy loses...) 
    Third and Final Chorus (I'm a Winner)

    8) Do some research on memory. 'Your Brain on Music' by Daniel Levitin shows that humans remember the contour of a melody first. Make sure your lyrics fit melodies that have a memorable contour.

    Visual / Sensual story telling also tends to be easier to memorize, so incorporate those ideas. A cliche would be 'Feast your eyes' or 'taste the pain'. 

    After writing these rules out, a song idea popped into my head: Brick Wall. Simple, Visual, and you can tell a story about over coming brick walls, a metaphor for struggle. A metaphor for being rejected by a crush? Who knows :)
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 24601
    Find a big hit song you like ... find the chord progression .. understand what made it great and start changing the chords around or substituting them and changing the tempo and away you go. That's how people like Lennon and McCartney and Jagger and Richards started and they haven't done too badly.

    Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
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  • GrunfeldGrunfeld Frets: 4027
    edited August 2017
    Rocker said:
    ...New territory to me so thanks for any suggestions....
    Be authentic. 
    A mate of mine writes stuff along the lines of "I took my baby to the drive in..." -- Essex has only got one Drive-In and it's utterly rubbish so singing like he's in southern California is deeply unconvincing. 
    A slice of insight about life in Basildon would be more honest at least. Or even just a song about dreaming of a sunnier life...
    If you write about something that's meaningful for you at least your song has integrity going for it -- even if everything else about it is rubbish.
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