Economy picking question

Barney

Does anybody else find it harder when economy picking going down the strings from bottom E to top

My technique dosnt seem as good going down as up ... the technique on my right hand looks the same both ways

ChrisMusic

Slightly ambiguously worded maybe "down the strings from bottom to top" ?  Surly down from top to bottom, or up from bottom to top is more logically consistent ?  One of "guitar speak's" little inconsistencies  

But, yes, I find exactly the same, I don't understand why though, obviously to do with physiology IMO.  Frustrating all the same.

Barney

ChrisMusic said:

Slightly ambiguously worded maybe "down the strings from bottom to top" ?  Surly down from top to bottom, or up from bottom to top is more logically consistent ?  One of "guitar speak's" little inconsistencies  

But, yes, I find exactly the same, I don't understand why though, obviously to do with physiology IMO.  Frustrating all the same.

Yeah i thought long and hard about the wording...lol

Just wondering if the coordination has to be better .the point of contact and the pick stroke..when going up a scale where as with going down the string has sounded anyways by the pulloff so not so critical....i have came to the point of using hybrid up the scale and economy or legato down

viz

 ChrisMusic said:

Slightly ambiguously worded maybe "down the strings from bottom to top" ?  

Isn't that exactly the best way of saying it? 'Down' as in 'downwards towards the floor', from the low E string to the high E string?

DLM

The terminology confuddlement is even worse than that. What if you string your guitar the other way up like Eric Gales or Albert King (or, for greater example relevance here, Mr. Shred, Thorsten Köhne)? Then a "down sweep" is an "up sweep"!

bloodandtears

DLM said:

The terminology confuddlement is even worse than that. What if you string your guitar the other way up like Eric Gales or Albert King (or, for greater example relevance here, Mr. Shred, Thorsten Köhne)? Then a "down sweep" is an "up sweep"!

Eden's Curse!!!! mate of mine...

Barney

DLM said:

The terminology confuddlement is even worse than that. What if you string your guitar the other way up like Eric Gales or Albert King (or, for greater example relevance here, Mr. Shred, Thorsten Köhne)? Then a "down sweep" is an "up sweep"!

Now thats just confused me

DLM

@Bloodandtears Thorsten used to post on the Racer X board when it started. Do you know him from IBreatheMusic? I miss his old website, that had so many cool pictures of his fabulously 80s custom shred guitars on it.

@Barney Exactly! I struggled watching Cormac Battle of the much-underrated Kerbdog live, what with all the heavy metal downstrokes now being upstrokes, but when I saw Köhne at the Frankfurt trade show in 1998 it really messed my head up.

Cabicular

I struggle going across the strings in ascending pitch  
Descending is far easier for me
Weird huh

bloodandtears

@DLM ; not Thorsten directly... Paul Logue is my mate.

ElectroDan

Sounds like you are naturally slanting your pick upwards (toward the wound strings). You can use this for patterns that will take you higher in pitch. But with a slight change in the slant angle of your pick (towards the unwound strings you can do the reverse of anything you already do.
It's so awkward feeling at first, but once it clicks it's surprisingly quick to develop. You really have to slow down and analyze what you are doing though.

Barney

ElectroDan said:

Sounds like you are naturally slanting your pick upwards (toward the wound strings). You can use this for patterns that will take you higher in pitch. But with a slight change in the slant angle of your pick (towards the unwound strings you can do the reverse of anything you already do.
It's so awkward feeling at first, but once it clicks it's surprisingly quick to develop. You really have to slow down and analyze what you are doing though.

i seem to angle from bottom to top strings the  side of the the plec that is nearest the head is angled down a touch so slicing through the string ...i dont alter anything to go the other way but it seems easier coming back down the scale 

bingefeller

Yeah I find it easier to economy pick down i.e. from the low E to the high E and this is typical of all downward pick slanters and the reason why Yngwie mainly does downward sweeps.  

stratman3142

ElectroDan said:

Sounds like you are naturally slanting your pick upwards (toward the wound strings). You can use this for patterns that will take you higher in pitch. But with a slight change in the slant angle of your pick (towards the unwound strings you can do the reverse of anything you already do.
It's so awkward feeling at first, but once it clicks it's surprisingly quick to develop. You really have to slow down and analyze what you are doing though.

Just checking the terminology. What you call upward pick slant I think I would call that downward pick slant, in that the part of the pick that is furthest from the strings is closer to the ground than the tip of the pick (i.e. what Yngwie Malmsteen does).

Strike that previous comment I think I misunderstood.

I downward pick slant for arpeggiated sweeps that ascend in pitch. I slightly upward pick slant for arpeggiated sweeps that descend in pitch.

For scales (including pentatonics) I'm only able to do multiple (economy) downstrokes between adjacent strings that ascend in pitch and that's mainly the double downstroke thing that EJ and JB do. Multiple up stroke economy picking feels really weird and awkward to me for scales, so I think I'm the opposite of the OP.

TheBlueWolf

For me it's easier going towards the floor using all down picks. Heading 'up' ( towards the ceiling ) seems more difficult, probably for me because it's against gravity and doesn't feel as natural.

Barney

Iv sort of seen my problem i think ...when going from lower to higher strings im picking by wrist movement but coming back down using my finger and thumb ...so i need to practise using my thumb and finger going from low to high ...so basically i shouldnt be using my wrist but more my first finger and thumb... everybody will have different ways for what is comfortable for them though

bingefeller

Here's a "rough" idea of how it can be done:

DLM

bloodandtears said:

@DLM ; not Thorsten directly... Paul Logue is my mate.

@bloodandtears Oh, I see. That is one international band!

bloodandtears

DLM said:

bloodandtears said:

@DLM ; not Thorsten directly... Paul Logue is my mate.

@bloodandtears Oh, I see. That is one international band!

You are not wrong there...  in fact they used to record their own parts remotely, share files over the internet.. I believe that how it all started for them.

MatthewShreddery

OP - Yes I find exactly that same difficulty. Economy picking from low to high is harder for me than the other way. No idea why. 

ChrisMusic

MatthewShreddery said:

OP - Yes I find exactly that same difficulty. Economy picking from low to high is harder for me than the other way. No idea why. 

Try this...

If you rest your right elbow on the arm of a chair and form a plectrum holding shape with your hand, and then try repeating the equivalent rotations to an up stroke a few times and then a down stroke several times, you may find, as I do, that the down stroke motion seems to have more resistance in your forearm.

I would be interested to hear if this happens for others on here, or if indeed the opposite happens, it would be good research.

I believe that isolating movements to their simplest form often helps in practice, especially when analysing things.
That seems to be the basis on which Troy Grady builds his videos too.

(P.S. south paws are welcome to play too    )