Noob questions for the Bigsby brigade

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McTootMcToot Frets: 2041
Never had a Bigsby'd guitar in my life until recently and now have two. I have a couple of totally noob questions:

1) On one (actually a Telecaster onto which I bolted the B5 with Vibramate) the unit really doesn't have much effect at all - you really have to give it some humpty to get anything more than the mildest of shimmers. Could that be remedied by a softer spring? 

2) Do the arms on all Bigsbys stay exactly where you leave them or is it possible to loosen it so it simply drops to 6 o'clock when you let go under it's own weight?

TIA   

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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 26753
    1) Yes, since the amount of wobble is entirely dictated by how far you physically push the arm. A softer spring will make it move further for the same effort. Though I'm not sure how easy it is to get such a spring.

    2) All of mine have, but there is a nut inside where the spring sits that keeps the arm attached. Loosening that would loosen the arm, and not cause a problem if it's one of those nuts with plastic on the threads to let you do just that. They probably have a name. @ICBM will know... ;)
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  • JohnPerryJohnPerry Frets: 1616
    Reverend supply softer springs for $10 plus postage and they make a big difference. I got one a month or so ago - far more useful now (this is also a B5 on a Tele): 

    http://store.reverendguitars.com/product/soft-touch-spring/



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  • impmannimpmann Frets: 12646
    1) Infuriating, isn't it? You can try a Super Squishy Spring from Bricks (http://bricksbiggsfix.com/product/sss/) - that made my Epi Casino much more useable.

    2) If you slacken the nut that adjusts the arm tension, you'll find that you'll waggle the arm and bugger all with happen at the fulcrum. You slacken the adjuster and the spring that holds the arm to the fulcrum goes slack - then all the effort put into the bar waggles the spring not the fulcrum.



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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    McToot said:
    Never had a Bigsby'd guitar in my life until recently and now have two. I have a couple of totally noob questions:

    1) On one (actually a Telecaster onto which I bolted the B5 with Vibramate) the unit really doesn't have much effect at all - you really have to give it some humpty to get anything more than the mildest of shimmers. Could that be remedied by a softer spring? 

    2) Do the arms on all Bigsbys stay exactly where you leave them or is it possible to loosen it so it simply drops to 6 o'clock when you let go under it's own weight?
    Unfortunately the answers to both questions are mutually exclusive…

    1. Probably the arm bolt is loose. This will allow the arm to rock on the cam rather than it moving the cam up and down. You need to tighten the arm bolt - by holding the nut with a pair of long-nose pliers and turning the arm (the bolt is locked to the arm with a square boss so it turns with the arm).

    Personally I don't think a softer spring is the solution - quite the opposite, a stiffer spring holds the cam up higher so it has more travel range, albeit at the expense of a stiffer action. I don't get the appeal of soft springs at all, I've often replaced mine with stiffer ones made from cut-down air rifle springs! (So I could also make them longer, further increasing the arm height.)

    2. No. They're never loose enough to swing under their own weight, and if they are there will *definitely* be the first problem.

    Bigsbys seem to come with a vital component missing though - under the cam, there is a spring which tensions the arm. Usually, there is no washer between it and the cam - there needs to be, and there is a recess designed to take one. The right washer is one that fits perfectly into it. Fitting the washer allows you to tighten the arm much more without the nut working loose and without making it so hard to move the arm. Grease the washer thoroughly on both sides and the arm will move much more smoothly.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • impmannimpmann Frets: 12646
    edited July 2017
    McToot said:


    On one (actually a Telecaster onto which I bolted the B5 with Vibramate) the unit really doesn't have much effect at all - you really have to give it some humpty to get anything more than the mildest of shimmers. Could that be remedied by a softer spring? 


    It also could be too much tension on the roller - the Bricks Stabilser system turned the Bigsby on my Casino from an annoyance into something much more useable. I found that gentle shimmers actually happened instead of pumping the arm like mad and getting nothing out of it.

    ICBM said:

    Personally I don't think a softer spring is the solution - quite the opposite, a stiffer spring holds the cam up higher so it has more travel range, albeit at the expense of a stiffer action. I don't get the appeal of soft springs at all, I've often replaced mine with stiffer ones made from cut-down air rifle springs! (So I could also make them longer, further increasing the arm height.)

    And that proves there's no right or wrong way to do this!! :-)

    I preferred the squishy spring because it made those gentle shimmers happen - I found with the stiff spring, the action of the arm was damped out too much by the arm tension spring. However, as with all these things its probably just preference.

    ICBM said:


    Bigsbys seem to come with a vital component missing though - under the cam, there is a spring which tensions the arm. Usually, there is no washer between it and the cam - there needs to be, and there is a recess designed to take one. The right washer is one that fits perfectly into it. Fitting the washer allows you to tighten the arm much more without the nut working loose and without making it so hard to move the arm. Grease the washer thoroughly on both sides and the arm will move much more smoothly.

    Thats is interesting info, mate. Thanks. I wasn't aware of that and thinking about it makes 100% sense.



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  • McTootMcToot Frets: 2041
    Yes - thanks @ICBM , @impmann and @JohnPerry  - all responses much appreciated.  I've ordered a squishy spring just to see if it makes any difference. I think both guitars could probably do with a set up by someone not quite so inept as myself.  

    Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder


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  • CorvusCorvus Frets: 2924
    tFB Trader
    You can get a taller spring which gives a bit more travel/pitch range since the arm sits higher. Dunno if they come in squishy though.
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  • axisusaxisus Frets: 28280
    I bought the reverend spring. Big improvement for me, but I'd like to try an even softer spring. Having the arm drop down would look silly, I just tap it out of the way a bit.
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  • axisusaxisus Frets: 28280
    Has anyone Compared the super squishy spring to the reverend?
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  • axisusaxisus Frets: 28280
    axisus said:
    Has anyone Compared the super squishy spring to the reverend?
    No. Nobody has. Ever.
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  • axisusaxisus Frets: 28280

    axisus said:
    axisus said:
    Has anyone Compared the super squishy spring to the reverend?
    No. Nobody has. Ever.
    OK, thanx.
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  • impmannimpmann Frets: 12646
    axisus said:

    axisus said:
    axisus said:
    Has anyone Compared the super squishy spring to the reverend?
    No. Nobody has. Ever.
    OK, thanx.
    Are 'the voices' getting to you a bit?
    Never Ever Bloody Anything Ever.

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  • robertyroberty Frets: 10893
    I got the "S70LG DUESE Mountain & Bigsby Tremolo Spring" from Amazon for my Electromatic and it made a huge difference. Went from stiff to responsive. The BriggsBigsFix didn't really do anything for me
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  • McTootMcToot Frets: 2041
    roberty said:
    I got the "S70LG DUESE Mountain & Bigsby Tremolo Spring" from Amazon for my Electromatic and it made a huge difference. Went from stiff to responsive. The BriggsBigsFix didn't really do anything for me
    Balls - that's the one I ordered.  $10 for the spring $15 for the postage from The Gunland States of Murica...

     :s 

    Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder


    My trading feedback  - I'm a good egg  ;) 

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  • Flanging_FredFlanging_Fred Frets: 3010
    Whip the fucker out and bang in a Floyd. Or a Washburn wonderbar. Yeah, the Washburn. Do that.
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  • CabicularCabicular Frets: 2214
    I have also put a coin under the spring in a couple of mine to give the spring a bit more lift 
    I agree with John, softer spring doesn't help any mine when I tried it

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  • ijontyijonty Frets: 32
    So I'm thinking of adding a Bigsby to my Telecaster American Deluxe. As a newbie idiot, wondering if there's any risk it will f up my guitar. (I'll get a professional to install it.) And by f'ing up, that's not an invitation for Bibsby haters to say it will by definition ruin it. I'm keen to have a tremolo so general advice needed ta.

    Cheers,

    Jon


    ________________________________________________

    Telecaster American Deluxe, Cornell Romany amp, without the talent to use them properly
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  • TeyeplayerTeyeplayer Frets: 3132
    ijonty said:
    So I'm thinking of adding a Bigsby to my Telecaster American Deluxe. As a newbie idiot, wondering if there's any risk it will f up my guitar. (I'll get a professional to install it.) And by f'ing up, that's not an invitation for Bibsby haters to say it will by definition ruin it. I'm keen to have a tremolo so general advice needed ta.

    Cheers,

    Jon
    I’m not going to say don’t do it as I personally love a bigsby. However, be prepared for it to change the way the guitar feels and plays in a huge way. You may deem this better, you may not. 

    What I can say with certainty is there will be a significant change in the body weight and balance to what you are used to. You may also need to shim the neck at an angle, which again will change the feel of your tele and the string/body response you have previously been used to.
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11413
    edited May 2018
    ijonty said:
    So I'm thinking of adding a Bigsby to my Telecaster American Deluxe. As a newbie idiot, wondering if there's any risk it will f up my guitar. (I'll get a professional to install it.) And by f'ing up, that's not an invitation for Bibsby haters to say it will by definition ruin it. I'm keen to have a tremolo so general advice needed ta.

    Cheers,

    Jon


    I think that part of the Tele tone is the way the strings are anchored.  Most classic Teles have the through body stringing.  Whether through body or toploaded makes a difference is something that gets argued about, but the Bigsby might well change the tone.

    I did talk to a guy in a shop once who was in the process of selling a Bigsby loaded Custom Shop Tele.  He said it just didn't have the tone of a hardtail one.

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  • TheMarlinTheMarlin Frets: 7744
    edited May 2018
    McToot said:
    Never had a Bigsby'd guitar in my life until recently and now have two. I have a couple of totally noob questions:

    1) On one (actually a Telecaster onto which I bolted the B5 with Vibramate) the unit really doesn't have much effect at all - you really have to give it some humpty to get anything more than the mildest of shimmers. Could that be remedied by a softer spring? 

    2) Do the arms on all Bigsbys stay exactly where you leave them or is it possible to loosen it so it simply drops to 6 o'clock when you let go under it's own weight?

    TIA   
    Issue is caused by the amount of tension in the bridge/roller/anchor-point region.

    There is something on the market to fix this, it'll turn your B50 into a lush springy trem, light to handle, stable tuning, and a joy to use,




    Here is a fix, and it's pretty cheap.  https://bricksbiggsfix.com/shop/


    and I STRONGLY recommend that you need this:  https://bricksbiggsfix.com/product/sss/

    I've got a few of these.   Here is my thread on fitting version 1 of this - version 3 is a doddle to fit, no need to retain and modify the tension roller pin.  It's completely removed in V3.   http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/29433/how-to-improve-a-bigsby-b50-b70-and-make-it-feel-more-like-a-b6

    The end result is one of the best Bigsby's ever - easily as smooth and buttery in action as the Bigsby B6 on my Masterbullt Gretsch Anniversary.   I hate the B50, but a properly modified B50 is a killer trem.  Excellent in every way.

    Plus - @impmann has a lightly used kit for sale here in the UK.  If you don't buy it, I will.

    Cheers

    Marlin

     
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