Richtone annoying the crap out of me!

Fortheloveofguitar

Pretty annoyed at Richtone

sorry in advance about the ranting 

They have a used amp in the second hand section of the website that they have marked down as 'collection only'

I email them and asked why they won't ship. 24 hrs later i receive a response where i'm told its because it may get damaged in transit as they have had issues before. Ok i say but why are you offering shipping on other valve amps then, all of which don't come with the original packaging. So they posted a Marshall JVM head and a cornford Roadhouse combo , two Cornford Hellcat heads and a long line of other heads but decide to dig their heels in on this particular amp. Madness

They suggest i drive down which is a 5 hr round trip for me which i'm not willing to do as i'm not desperate for it and they should stop being silly and post the damn thing

So i leave if for a few days and my wife pics up a photo shoot in Cumbria which is handy as she offers to go out of her way to Sheffield to collect the amp on her way home. result!

So i ring Richtone yesterday morning and explain to the guy on the phone that i've emailed before , you won't ship this amp but my wife is willing to collect it as she's in the area. so if i buy it online will that be a ok for her to collect if she arrives with I.D and the card i've used for payment? 

This is met by 'umm ooh umm ah ah ah i'm not sure' and generally indecisive. By this stage i'm getting annoyed as this is becoming a lot of hard work . He eventually makes a decision that payment over the phone isn't possible and that  i 'must buy online via the website and use the 'deposit and collect' option and pay 10% now and my wife can pay the balance when she collects the amp. This is becoming hard work and i'm rapidly losing interest at this stage as it shouldn't be this bloody hard to buy a god damn amp

So i'm out and about so use my mobile to sign up for an account to finally get this sorted i then go through all the said options and get to the payment screen and their payment screen crashes ffs. Could be the 4G signal so i drive all the way home 20 min drive and log on to my PC and try again. No it's their website having problems and at this stage i've had my fill and in all honestly i'm pretty fucked off and its game over, I'm out. 

I've never had such a long winded effort to buy something and they look to be the only large dealer that has this ridiculous policy about what they will and won't post. 

Arktik83

I've seen a few secondhand offerings on the Richtone website that were collection only and I thought it was due to weight more than potential to be damaged in transit because, as a retailer they should be covered against any shenanigans.  

SunDevil

No logic in the unwillingness to post - they just find a courier that will insure amps (some don't and it's worth checking the exclusions)

Not taking payment over the phone could be around PCI compliance and a requirement from their payment company (yep, the one who's crashing their payment page) 

Either way, a crappy experience!

BRISTOL86

Sounds like a right pain, but I wonder if something has changed with regards payments over the phone - Peach told me the other day that they couldn't take more than £100 by phone!

SunDevil

BRISTOL86 said:

Sounds like a right pain, but I wonder if something has changed with regards payments over the phone - Peach told me the other day that they couldn't take more than £100 by phone!

..that'll be PCI compliance :-)

impmann

SunDevil said:

No logic in the unwillingness to post - they just find a courier that will insure amps (some don't and it's worth checking the exclusions)

Like whom? AFAIK, there isn't a single courier that will fully insure a valve amp in transit. Likewise, no courier will fully insure a guitar not in a hard case (and even then, most will weasel on it). I've given up shipping amps and guitars when I sell stuff for these reasons and many others besides - too much stress, grief and potential to lose money. I have had too many bad experiences of unrealistic expectations, lying about damage and other whinges.  There are good guys about, but in my experience they are in the minority now.

To the OP, I understand the frustration however, it isn't the vendor's problem where you live. They are probably counting on finding someone locally that will buy it and don't need the potential grief of shipping the amp. I can fully understand that - shipping stuff is a fucking PITA.

Without wishing to sound funny - why not find one locally? If its so rare that you will never do so, then you may have to accept that you'll need to journey to collect.

Fortheloveofguitar

impmann said:

SunDevil said:

No logic in the unwillingness to post - they just find a courier that will insure amps (some don't and it's worth checking the exclusions)

Like whom? AFAIK, there isn't a single courier that will fully insure a valve amp in transit. Likewise, no courier will fully insure a guitar not in a hard case (and even then, most will weasel on it). I've given up shipping amps and guitars when I sell stuff for these reasons and many others besides - too much stress, grief and potential to lose money. I have had too many bad experiences of unrealistic expectations, lying about damage and other whinges.  There are good guys about, but in my experience they are in the minority now.

To the OP, I understand the frustration however, it isn't the vendor's problem where you live. They are probably counting on finding someone locally that will buy it and don't need the potential grief of shipping the amp. I can fully understand that - shipping stuff is a fucking PITA.

Without wishing to sound funny - why not find one locally? If its so rare that you will never do so, then you may have to accept that you'll need to journey to collect.

My point is that they will obviously post brand new amps.

 However I could pick 10 amps from the used section and they're happy to post 8 of them but not the other 2 as they 'might get damaged'

A valve amp is a valve amp so why not stop selling amps altogether 
Thats my argument as it doesn't make sense 

These stores must have some level of insurance available to them from couriers or they'd all be scared to post anything either new or used so online stores shouldn't nothe being in business

TheBigDipper

If they were selling on behalf of a third party and charging commission, maybe the owner won't let them ship it? Although I don't understand why they wouldn't just tell you that. 

impmann

Fortheloveofguitar said:

impmann said:

SunDevil said:

No logic in the unwillingness to post - they just find a courier that will insure amps (some don't and it's worth checking the exclusions)

Like whom? AFAIK, there isn't a single courier that will fully insure a valve amp in transit. Likewise, no courier will fully insure a guitar not in a hard case (and even then, most will weasel on it). I've given up shipping amps and guitars when I sell stuff for these reasons and many others besides - too much stress, grief and potential to lose money. I have had too many bad experiences of unrealistic expectations, lying about damage and other whinges.  There are good guys about, but in my experience they are in the minority now.

To the OP, I understand the frustration however, it isn't the vendor's problem where you live. They are probably counting on finding someone locally that will buy it and don't need the potential grief of shipping the amp. I can fully understand that - shipping stuff is a fucking PITA.

Without wishing to sound funny - why not find one locally? If its so rare that you will never do so, then you may have to accept that you'll need to journey to collect.

My point is that they will obviously post brand new amps.

 However I could pick 10 amps from the used section and they're happy to post 8 of them but not the other 2 as they 'might get damaged'

A valve amp is a valve amp so why not stop selling amps altogether 
Thats my argument as it doesn't make sense 

These stores must have some level of insurance available to them from couriers or they'd all be scared to post anything either new or used so online stores shouldn't nothe being in business

Without knowing what the amp is, perhaps its more susceptible to damage in transit than the others (some amp cabinets are more easily damaged by a knock than others due to their design). Or perhaps its too valuable, or more difficult to get parts for, or that they don't have enough profit in it to warrant the risk (gave too much for it in p/ex etc).

Stores (or manufacturers for that matter) don't have any extra insurance that isn't available to you or I. Whilst all will try to claim, not all will be paid out. Its a business decision whether there is enough in it for them to risk sending it - if there is a greater risk of this particular amp getting pringled, for whatever reason, then as a business you have to balance that against the chance of selling it.

Ultimately though, its the seller's choice.

Fortheloveofguitar

TheBigDipper said:

If they were selling on behalf of a third party and charging commission, maybe the owner won't let them ship it? Although I don't understand why they wouldn't just tell you that. 

It's not a third party seller 

Fortheloveofguitar

impmann said:

Fortheloveofguitar said:

impmann said:

SunDevil said:

No logic in the unwillingness to post - they just find a courier that will insure amps (some don't and it's worth checking the exclusions)

Like whom? AFAIK, there isn't a single courier that will fully insure a valve amp in transit. Likewise, no courier will fully insure a guitar not in a hard case (and even then, most will weasel on it). I've given up shipping amps and guitars when I sell stuff for these reasons and many others besides - too much stress, grief and potential to lose money. I have had too many bad experiences of unrealistic expectations, lying about damage and other whinges.  There are good guys about, but in my experience they are in the minority now.

To the OP, I understand the frustration however, it isn't the vendor's problem where you live. They are probably counting on finding someone locally that will buy it and don't need the potential grief of shipping the amp. I can fully understand that - shipping stuff is a fucking PITA.

Without wishing to sound funny - why not find one locally? If its so rare that you will never do so, then you may have to accept that you'll need to journey to collect.

My point is that they will obviously post brand new amps.

 However I could pick 10 amps from the used section and they're happy to post 8 of them but not the other 2 as they 'might get damaged'

A valve amp is a valve amp so why not stop selling amps altogether 
Thats my argument as it doesn't make sense 

These stores must have some level of insurance available to them from couriers or they'd all be scared to post anything either new or used so online stores shouldn't nothe being in business

Without knowing what the amp is, perhaps its more susceptible to damage in transit than the others (some amp cabinets are more easily damaged by a knock than others due to their design). Or perhaps its too valuable, or more difficult to get parts for, or that they don't have enough profit in it to warrant the risk (gave too much for it in p/ex etc).

Stores (or manufacturers for that matter) don't have any extra insurance that isn't available to you or I. Whilst all will try to claim, not all will be paid out. Its a business decision whether there is enough in it for them to risk sending it - if there is a greater risk of this particular amp getting pringled, for whatever reason, then as a business you have to balance that against the chance of selling it.

Ultimately though, its the seller's choice.

They've recently sold 3 other amps by the same manufacturer and of the same build quality and all 3 of these had postage options

impmann

Fortheloveofguitar said:

impmann said:

Fortheloveofguitar said:

impmann said:

SunDevil said:

No logic in the unwillingness to post - they just find a courier that will insure amps (some don't and it's worth checking the exclusions)

Like whom? AFAIK, there isn't a single courier that will fully insure a valve amp in transit. Likewise, no courier will fully insure a guitar not in a hard case (and even then, most will weasel on it). I've given up shipping amps and guitars when I sell stuff for these reasons and many others besides - too much stress, grief and potential to lose money. I have had too many bad experiences of unrealistic expectations, lying about damage and other whinges.  There are good guys about, but in my experience they are in the minority now.

To the OP, I understand the frustration however, it isn't the vendor's problem where you live. They are probably counting on finding someone locally that will buy it and don't need the potential grief of shipping the amp. I can fully understand that - shipping stuff is a fucking PITA.

Without wishing to sound funny - why not find one locally? If its so rare that you will never do so, then you may have to accept that you'll need to journey to collect.

My point is that they will obviously post brand new amps.

 However I could pick 10 amps from the used section and they're happy to post 8 of them but not the other 2 as they 'might get damaged'

A valve amp is a valve amp so why not stop selling amps altogether 
Thats my argument as it doesn't make sense 

These stores must have some level of insurance available to them from couriers or they'd all be scared to post anything either new or used so online stores shouldn't nothe being in business

Without knowing what the amp is, perhaps its more susceptible to damage in transit than the others (some amp cabinets are more easily damaged by a knock than others due to their design). Or perhaps its too valuable, or more difficult to get parts for, or that they don't have enough profit in it to warrant the risk (gave too much for it in p/ex etc).

Stores (or manufacturers for that matter) don't have any extra insurance that isn't available to you or I. Whilst all will try to claim, not all will be paid out. Its a business decision whether there is enough in it for them to risk sending it - if there is a greater risk of this particular amp getting pringled, for whatever reason, then as a business you have to balance that against the chance of selling it.

Ultimately though, its the seller's choice.

They've recently sold 3 other amps by the same manufacturer and of the same build quality and all 3 of these had postage options

Perhaps they got destroyed/damaged and thats the reason.

jpfamps

There is also the issue of distance selling regs.

Maybe there isn't enough margin in the sale to cope with amp being returned.

ennspek

When a retailer is inflexible on a second hand amp it's usually because it's a commission sale in my experience.

Rox

Presumably if a new amp arrives and is damaged/not working and is returned, the store may be able to return it to the manufacturer, whereas they cannot do this with a second hand item?

bbill335

ennspek said:

When a retailer is inflexible on a second hand amp it's usually because it's a commission sale in my experience.

They wouldn't post a £100 speaker cab in the past. That doesn't sound like a commission to me, seems rather arbitrary.

I guess they could have a contract with a courier that has very specific size/weight restrictions that only certain amps meet?

Fortheloveofguitar

bbill335 said:

ennspek said:

When a retailer is inflexible on a second hand amp it's usually because it's a commission sale in my experience.

They wouldn't post a £100 speaker cab in the past. That doesn't sound like a commission to me, seems rather arbitrary.

I guess they could have a contract with a courier that has very specific size/weight restrictions that only certain amps meet?

They were happy to ship two Marshall JVM4H heads that are huge heads in size and weight. 

Fortheloveofguitar

ennspek said:

When a retailer is inflexible on a second hand amp it's usually because it's a commission sale in my experience.

As clarified earlier this is not a commission sale  

Fortheloveofguitar

Rox said:

Presumably if a new amp arrives and is damaged/not working and is returned, the store may be able to return it to the manufacturer, whereas they cannot do this with a second hand item?

possibly but if they've had a new amp on the shop floor then the responsibility would lie with the store.

Not sure about box shifters though that never open the boxes and just ship straight out

Ravenous

I suspect it's just that there isn't enough margin in this used amplifier to make shipping it worthwhile.

I've seen this on their site before, and it's generally been something huge, at a good price, and it's been no surprise to me that they want collection.

Something smaller, or something newer and more expensive, they probably would ship.

As for sending a third party with a card she doesn't own - that could get dodgy. What if she doesn't arrive and they're stuck holding a huge amplifier someone else has already paid for?

jpfamps

Ravenous said:

As for sending a third party with a card she doesn't own - that could get dodgy. What if she doesn't arrive and they're stuck holding a huge amplifier someone else has already paid for?

Indeed that is a classic card fraud method.

If you take a card not present payment, you have to ship to the address the card is registered to else the card company will not refund you in the case of fraud.