Helix Native

octatonic

This is a pretty good intro video to the Helix.

guitarfishbay

Ok so far for the sounds I need, I reckon the bass stuff is really good in the Helix.  And being honest, I do prefer the bass stuff in the Helix to the bass stuff in the Axe FX, from a plug and play perspective.

I'm less convinced on the guitar side of things, but I'll give it a fair shot and am going to shoot it out against some other stuff.

I'm really not a fan of tweaking for too long though and all the scrolling in the Native plujgin is quite slow in comparison to using Axe Edit, or hardware preamp pedals for bass, which is my current setup.  So while I totally support their decision for unified UI across hardware and software, it's not my preference for a plugin to work like this.  I think re-sizeable windows would help a lot, and reduce a lot of scrolling, so I'm sure that'll improve.  

As it is right now though I find the UI a bit clunky to operate with a mouse, and I don't like the sliders as they're hard for me to eyeball quickly along with the need to scroll.  I find I need to track my eye from left (to see parameter name) to right (to see value) which is IMO objectively slower than a clearly marked dial with the parameter name directly above or below it, which you could see in one go.  It's not a deal breaker to me, but I do have a preference

guitarfishbay

octatonic said:

guitarfishbay said:

Ok I think the B7KU model sounds like a B7KU, I've got a real one here and the tone of the Helix version is recognisible.  I prefer the real pedal, again I'm finding it a bit more aggressive than the model in Helix but the Helix model sounds and plays well and the tone is definitely recognisible to me.  Would use the Helix model for sure.

The SV model sounds good to me.  I find it a lot more plug and play than the Axe FX model to be honest.  

I am really loving the plugin- it just works with no fuss.

Are you playing through it or mixing through it?

I've got to be honest I prefer the high gain amp feel and tone in the Axe FX, and that's primarily what I use.  I'll get around to the mid gain and clean stuff later, but I'm starting from priorities first and working backwards.  I do like the bass stuff in it though and I think it sounds good quicker than the Axe FX for bass, and there are more effects and models.

I don't find the plugin fast to use at all so far, way too much scrolling and I don't like the sliders as per my previous post.  Prefer a tabbed approach and dials.  Resizeable windows will help a lot though

fretmeister

The GK800 bass amp is awesome.

i love GK amps and the model is bang on. 

octatonic

guitarfishbay said:

octatonic said:

guitarfishbay said:

Ok I think the B7KU model sounds like a B7KU, I've got a real one here and the tone of the Helix version is recognisible.  I prefer the real pedal, again I'm finding it a bit more aggressive than the model in Helix but the Helix model sounds and plays well and the tone is definitely recognisible to me.  Would use the Helix model for sure.

The SV model sounds good to me.  I find it a lot more plug and play than the Axe FX model to be honest.  

I am really loving the plugin- it just works with no fuss.

Are you playing through it or mixing through it?

I've got to be honest I prefer the high gain amp feel and tone in the Axe FX, and that's primarily what I use.  I'll get around to the mid gain and clean stuff later, but I'm starting from priorities first and working backwards.  I do like the bass stuff in it though and I think it sounds good quicker than the Axe FX for bass, and there are more effects and models.

I don't find the plugin fast to use at all so far, way too much scrolling and I don't like the sliders as per my previous post.  Prefer a tabbed approach and dials.  Resizeable windows will help a lot though

A bit of both.
But I'm using it for sound-designy type tones rather than trying to copy specific amps.

The best plugin for 'authentic' guitars tones is IMHO Slate/Scuffham S-Gear 2.
If you haven't tried it then I highly suggest you do- it is ridiculously good, possibly better than the AFX.
It sounds big, raw and full in the way that a lot of plugins don't.

The downside of it is you have a limited number of amp models (about 5 but they are all stellar) and the only effects are delay and reverb.
Essentially I use that for the more traditional guitar tones (mostly using a Fender-style amp, Marshall amp and a SLO).
The SLO, in particular, is brilliant.
It also only has a few speakers but they all sound right.

One of my criticism of the AFX is there are too many amps and too many speakers.
I just don't need that many and having so many slows down the workflow- you spend ages pissing about with things that don't matter, even me and I am quite disciplined to not piss about.

A lot of what I do on guitar is essentially sound design so have to turn to other things- the AFX or the Helix plugin are both very capable at this.
I think what this highlights is all these different boxes and plugins have different applications, with some doing certain things better than others.

I'm enjoying having access to it all, given I started with a Boss ME5 waaaay back in the 80's, it feels like the problem of recording guitars easily has been solved, it just comes down to finding ways that work in different situations.

stratman3142

octatonic said:

The best plugin for 'authentic' guitars tones is IMHO Slate/Scuffham S-Gear 2
If you haven't tried it then I highly suggest you do- it is ridiculously good...

...The downside of it is you have a limited number of amp models (about 5 but they are all stellar) and the only effects are delay and reverb.

In addition to delay and reverb, if you right click over the lower part of the S-Gear 2 interface and select 'Add device' there's also a 'Mod Thing'.

I agree with you about S-Gear, but Amplitube Fender Collection 2 offers a few things I like that I've not been able to get from S-Gear.

I've still to do a proper comparison of these ampsims with my Helix LT. I can't afford the Helix Native Plug-In at the moment and I don't want to download the demo yet because I know what will happen

guitarfishbay

octatonic said:

A bit of both.
But I'm using it for sound-designy type tones rather than trying to copy specific amps.

The best plugin for 'authentic' guitars tones is IMHO Slate/Scuffham S-Gear 2.
If you haven't tried it then I highly suggest you do- it is ridiculously good, possibly better than the AFX.
It sounds big, raw and full in the way that a lot of plugins don't.

The downside of it is you have a limited number of amp models (about 5 but they are all stellar) and the only effects are delay and reverb.
Essentially I use that for the more traditional guitar tones (mostly using a Fender-style amp, Marshall amp and a SLO).
The SLO, in particular, is brilliant.
It also only has a few speakers but they all sound right.

One of my criticism of the AFX is there are too many amps and too many speakers.
I just don't need that many and having so many slows down the workflow- you spend ages pissing about with things that don't matter, even me and I am quite disciplined to not piss about.

A lot of what I do on guitar is essentially sound design so have to turn to other things- the AFX or the Helix plugin are both very capable at this.
I think what this highlights is all these different boxes and plugins have different applications, with some doing certain things better than others.

I'm enjoying having access to it all, given I started with a Boss ME5 waaaay back in the 80's, it feels like the problem of recording guitars easily has been solved, it just comes down to finding ways that work in different situations.

I'm not trying to copy specific amps - I sold all of my amps and am 100% digital, but I do like a particular type of tone and feel and for high gain the Axe FX nails it for me.  I actually don't think the Axe FX completely nails specific amps either, but if anything I find their some of their models more usable for recording.

I have not tried Scuffham but I will definitely check it out.

I don't find the amount of gear in the Axe FX an issue because I don't bother to try the majority of it.  I pretty much use amps I've used or variations of, and Ownhammer IR's of cabs I've owned or very similar.  I must have similar tastes to Cliff/Ownhammer because it all works like I'd want and I can dial in the sounds I want very quickly.  Any post distortion FX I just use plugins (e.g. Delay/Reverb etc). 

There isn't enough bass gear in the Axe FX though, and what's in there isn't especially plug in and play for my tastes - which is why I've been using preamp pedals.  I think the Helix has it beat for bass, for my tastes anyway.

octatonic

stratman3142 said:

octatonic said:

The best plugin for 'authentic' guitars tones is IMHO Slate/Scuffham S-Gear 2
If you haven't tried it then I highly suggest you do- it is ridiculously good...

...The downside of it is you have a limited number of amp models (about 5 but they are all stellar) and the only effects are delay and reverb.

In addition to delay and reverb, if you right click over the lower part of the S-Gear 2 interface and select 'Add device' there's also a 'Mod Thing'.

LOL- I can't believe I didn't know this.
Cheers.

Logic's amp plugin is actually pretty decent.
I use Waves GTR and NI Guitar Rig for some things too.

guitarfishbay

Ok I just loaded up the S Gear 2 demo and the Wayfarer is killer.  

Haven't even looked up the price of S gear or even what the Wayfarer is modelled on if anything at all... just straight out of the gate that's a lot closer to what I want from an amp sim and I don't feel like I need to reach for advanced parameters, actually I don't even know if there are any.

Fretwired

guitarfishbay said:

Ok I just loaded up the S Gear 2 demo and the Wayfarer is killer.  

Haven't even looked up the price of S gear or even what the Wayfarer is modelled on if anything at all... just straight out of the gate that's a lot closer to what I want from an amp sim and I don't feel like I need to reach for advanced parameters, actually I don't even know if there are any.

S Gear is good and not that expensive .. their amp models are hybrids rather than slavish copies of an amp. I think the Wayfarer is based on a few US amps from California ..

guitarfishbay

fretmeister said:

The GK800 bass amp is awesome.

i love GK amps and the model is bang on. 

I didn't try that one yet, but as a bassist first I definitely think you bought the right hardware unit.

Right now, if a bassist asked me what FX unit to buy I'd say a Helix based on I think almost 3 years with an Axe FX 2 and one evening with Native. It's just that much less faff to get a good bass sound with it, even before you get to the increased choice. The Fractal bass models, and drive pedals sound good but I stopped using them when I got a Darkglass B7K for the first time and found it a mile easier than trying to blend things in the Fractal. Native is the best digital thing I've tried for bass I think 

octatonic

guitarfishbay said:

Ok I just loaded up the S Gear 2 demo and the Wayfarer is killer.  

Haven't even looked up the price of S gear or even what the Wayfarer is modelled on if anything at all... just straight out of the gate that's a lot closer to what I want from an amp sim and I don't feel like I need to reach for advanced parameters, actually I don't even know if there are any.

It is cheap- about $120 IIRC.
If you are a Slate plugins subscriber then it is part of the bundle with that too.

guitarfishbay

Nah I'm not a subscriber. Definitely considering an S Gear 2 purchase though.

I already had most of the Slate stuff before the subscription model was announced and I think the only subsequent plugin I bought has been the Blue 1176's which are really awesome, to the point I sometimes question if I should sell my WA76 as I hardly use it anymore. The Slate comps sound good enough that I don't miss the hardware until I use it, if that makes sense, and even then I'm not sure it's enough different/better to keep

octatonic

guitarfishbay said:

Nah I'm not a subscriber. Definitely considering an S Gear 2 purchase though.

I already had most of the Slate stuff before the subscription model was announced and I think the only subsequent plugin I bought has been the Blue 1176's which are really awesome, to the point I sometimes question if I should sell my WA76 as I hardly use it anymore. The Slate comps sound good enough that I don't miss the hardware until I use it, if that makes sense, and even then I'm not sure it's enough different/better to keep

I could be interested in the WA76 if the price is right.

I am a Slate subscriber although I am not sure I'll go beyond the first year as I also own the plugins that I use the most.

guitarfishbay

Ok if I do decide to sell it I'll message you before listing. I'm not actively looking to sell it right at this moment

octatonic

guitarfishbay said:

Ok if I do decide to sell it I'll message you before listing. I'm not actively looking to sell it right at this moment

Sweet.

Here is a video someone on Gearslutz did with the Helix native.
Sounds pretty good, although the guitars are mixed a bit high.

guitarfishbay

Yeah I think Jon gets some really good tones out of the Helix. He's the demo guy for Ownhammer and does demos with Fractal gear too. I'm awaiting this IR pack actually as I tend to like 2x12s for low tunings and know it'll contain some Zilla 2x12s

ruoma

After having used helix native extensively for the first few days, I havent touched it the last couple of days any more. I sometimes feel logic's built in amps with a good celestion IR sound as good. I'm just going to buy a second amp for recording to accompany the tweed and continue with the suhr RL and IR's. 

Last weekend I also saw a guy with the axe8 on stage, cursing his whole way through the show due to the soundman's incompetence to deliver proper monitoring. Somehow a 1x12 combo seems safer and easier.

normula1

I was getting a fair amount of GAS for a full fat Helix but had avoided going trying one after being burned in the past by buying boxes that promise the earth and probably do, but I only end up using 2% of the features.
So today I had some time to try Native and bearing in mind I've only really dipped my toe in, it seems to do what it says on the tin. I've no idea whether the modelled tones come anywhere near the real ones and don't particularly care but it does sound good. I lost a good hour and a half playing on the 02C Brit 2204 preset with the amp swapped out for the Mahadeva model and the distortion pedal turned off.

I'll be having a further play, but I can't see me buying either the Helix itself or Native as I don't need most of the stuff it has.

guitarfishbay

Just trying out TSE X50 and it's great.  Would definitely give it a go if you want a 6505 sim