3 options for simple home recording ... decisions shouldn't be this hard

close2u

I have had two recent threads asking advice about laptops & iPad recording ... and they both tie in with this.

Im looking for a simple and accessible home setup for recording vocal & guitar as close to plug and play as is reasonable. My wife also wants to record unaccompanied songs with multiple layers of vocal harmony so she needs to be able to record layers with zero or minimal latency.

I’m going round and round in circles scratching my head and not being sure which route to take.

The options as I see them are:

1] Buy a Focusrite iTrack Dock and use our iPad;

2] Buy an audio interface (Steinberg UR22 mk2 or Focusrite 2i2 2nd gen etc) and use the ipad and / or a new computer if & when I do buy one. More flexible than option 1.

3] Buy a standalone recorder / interface (Zoom R8 or Tascam DP008 etc). Connect to iPad / computer as & when for mixing.

We need to buy a condenser mic, headphones and, maybe monitor speakers whichever option we choose. That said, options 1 & 2 can be bought in bundle packs with mic & headphones included.

I am happy to buy 2nd hand or new. Budget is approx £300-400 and bolstered if buying on Amazon as I have about £200 in account.

Can you offer any advice to help? Thanks.

Sporky

I think the most important thing is to find a bit of software and/or hardware that you get on with, so you can sit down and record without fighting the technology.

fretmeister

Predictable fan boy alert...

Helix (Native) and an interface. Focusrite have some great low cost options.

IMC1980

+1 for Focusrite as an entry interface, I used one up until recently (1st gen 2i4) and they are very good. They also come bundled with some nice plugins when you register them. 

octatonic

IMC1980 said:

+1 for Focusrite as an entry interface, I used one up until recently (1st gen 2i4) and they are very good. They also come bundled with some nice plugins when you register them. 

+1 for Focusrite.
Focusrite are doing everything right (rite) at the moment for me.
Their budget interfaces are excellent and their high-end interfaces are absolutely astounding.
I have a Red 8 Pre that my whole studio runs off. I get 60 inputs at 96khz with under 2ms of latency and it is all seamless.
I can also expand it to 128 inputs at 96khz using AoIP.
It is very cool.

Also their support is pretty amazing.
I got an email yesterday from them saying they noticed a manufacturing fault with my interface that under some circumstances could be a safety issue so they are sending me a whole new interface tomorrow that I can swap out and send mine back at my convenience.
That is the sort of support you dream of with a pro audio company.

By comparison I tried to get something fixed by SPL and was rudely told by the UK distributor that I'd have to wait 'as long as it takes' with no idea of when that would be.

guitarfishbay

fretmeister said:

Predictable fan boy alert...

Helix (Native) and an interface. Focusrite have some great low cost options.

That's most of his budget gone though and there's a lot he still needs to buy.

I'm a Focusrite fan for interfaces, I've had good experiences with the Scarlett interfaces and now Clarett's. I think they solved the DI headroom issue on the 2nd gen (you needed pads on the 1st gen for hotter pickups, only an issue on the 2i2 IIRC)

guitarfishbay

If you're going to do a lot of layers of vocals, and can see yourself investing more heavily in software in the future I highly recommend Studio One as a long term software solution. You can access Melodyne and Vocalign instantly per region (if you have licenses), and can render and unrender edits as you like, even continue to swipe takes while loaded into Melodyne.

I'm not aware of anything else that can do this and it's quite literally several times faster than doing this kind of production in Logic.

mellowsun

If you want plug and play with 0 latency, up to 24 tracks of 24bit audio and a budget of 300 quid then one of these could fit the bill:

http://tascam.com/product/dp-24sd/

I have one one that I'm not using as I've gone back to Logic, but it's a great plug and play solution. Sound quality is good, slight amount of hiss so great for polished demos rather than releasable tracks

close2u

@Sporky

Wise advice ... I don't want to fight, just have it simple and easy to setup / use ... albeit there's going to be some learning etc along the way.

 

@fretmeister @IMC1980 @octatonic @guitarfishbay

 Focusrite do seem good in the 2i2 and for the iTrack Dock if I can decide between the two.

If I’m going interface – which I know is the more flexible option long term - the Steinberg seems good too. But I’m happy to narrow it down to either 2i2 or iTrack Dock and that is one set of decisions made.

@guitarfishbay

No more than a handful of multi-track overlays of vocals to be honest. The 8 available on the Zoom R8 and Tascam DP008 would be easily enough.

 

@mellowsun

24 tracks is overkill for our needs.

For all we’re not recording for CD quality to release, it would be nice not to have hiss.

So ... options:

1] iTrack Dock ... fits the plug & play bill nicely

2] 2i2 ... gets good recommendations

3] multi-track recorder / interface ... which of them I'm not sure ...

I’ve just been watching a video demo of the DP008 EX (£168) and it seems to fit the bill.

As does the Zoom R8 which costs a little more.In fact the Tascam DP006 (£109) may even be enough … 6 tracks will be fine I reckon.

mellowsun

imho the Tascam 006 will be too limited for you, it has no xlr ins and no mic pre's

The 008 EX has 2 xlr ins, nice little unit (I had one but sold it!)

The Zoom r8 is noisier than the Tascam. The 008Ex  is only 16 bit but the sound is pristine 

close2u

@mellowsun ;Thanks. I only scanned the price of the 006 in passing, not its specs. That is no good. The Zoom is noisier? Do you mean background noise, hiss etc. I don't need drum machine or loops, so from what you're saying the Tascam 008 EX could be my choice from option 3 ... and cheaper than the Zoom.

mellowsun

A few years back I spent ages researching the various digital portastudio options and iirc the Zoom has worse s/n ratio than the Tascam.

Also check out the Dp03 - not much more than the 008ex and has proper sliders!

https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/14081810424932--tascam-dp-03sd-digital-multitrack-recorder?gclid=EAIaIQobChMItP3B3vHr1QIVrjLTCh337AxFEAQYASABEgKUCPD_BwE

close2u

mellowsun said:

Also check out the Dp03 - not much more than the 008ex and has proper sliders!

Thanks, I will. I'm not sure what the advantage of sliders would be? Better mixing control without needing computer me daw?
Also  from your previous post, I'm not sure what 16 bit means. 

mellowsun

close2u said:

mellowsun said:

Also check out the Dp03 - not much more than the 008ex and has proper sliders!

Thanks, I will. I'm not sure what the advantage of sliders would be? Better mixing control without needing computer me daw?
Also  from your previous post, I'm not sure what 16 bit means. 

I find mixing desk style sliders a more natural way of matching levels than turning rotary knobs. Easier to visualise if you want to reset a mix.

Good explanation of 16bit vs 24bit :

http://www.tested.com/tech/1905-the-real-differences-between-16-bit-and-24-bit-audio/

Sporky

I'm not sure that 24 bit offers much advantage for this sort of application. In theory higher bit depth means a better signal to noise ratio, but in practice the quality of the system makes a lot of difference - possibly more.

The interface and workflow will make a lot more difference to how much use you get from the solution.

mellowsun

Sporky said:

I'm not sure that 24 bit offers much advantage for this sort of application. In theory higher bit depth means a better signal to noise ratio, but in practice the quality of the system makes a lot of difference - possibly more.

The interface and workflow will make a lot more difference to how much use you get from the solution.

Indeed, you could be recording in 24 bit but those last 8 bits might just be noise.

close2u

mellowsun said

Indeed, you could be recording in 24 bit but those last 8 bits might just be noise.

And nobody wants 8 bits of noise right!

close2u

With option 2 I definitely need to buy a new computer. So, I reckon I have boiled it down to this:
iTrack dock or Tascam DP008. I may get both and try them out to see which works best. With DSR I can return within a month.

Now to solve the microphone headphone purchase problem ha ha.

Question ... I have a dynamic mic. Are the mic preamps in either of my choices able to deal with the signal - even as a temporary measure to get me started - or do I need a condenser from the outset?

octatonic

Sporky said:

I'm not sure that 24 bit offers much advantage for this sort of application. In theory higher bit depth means a better signal to noise ratio, but in practice the quality of the system makes a lot of difference - possibly more.

The interface and workflow will make a lot more difference to how much use you get from the solution.

This is very true.
There are loads of converters out there that are 24bit and 192khz but they use quite cheap ADA's and the circuitry around them isn't particularly impressive in terms of TDH+noise and other metrics used to measure the quality of the device.

They are better than they have ever been though- especially the prosumer stuff.
20 years ago (so 1997( you couldn't do professional work with any of the prosumer stuff- just getting balanced connections was an uphill struggle. We had to deal with half duplex interfaces so you couldn't hear what you were recording and even if you could then you'd hear it 30ms later so it was pointless.

When Protools 24 Mix came out in (IIRC) 1998 you were looking at the thick end of £20k for a full system and it wasn't exactly reliable.

close2u

UPDATE ...

I bought a Focusrite iTrack Dock ( should arrive soon - thanks @cbellanga ) and a studio condenser mic today.

Along with my existing dynamic mic that will get me started ... and no need to buy a new laptop ... just yet.

I am still very tempted to get something else too and either a Zoom R8 or a Tascam DP 008 look very tempting. I could use them on their own, my existing pc would be able to handle the tracks created and they are very GAS-worthy. But for now at least I am setup and can get started. 

Apart from headphones.

Thank you all for your help.
 No doubt I shall be back for more as I get started ... or maybe even before then. 

thomasross20

TBH I'm still using my old toneport, it comes with the software, too - easy as pie.