Working for free.

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  • PolarityManPolarityMan Frets: 7273
    I think that's a reasonable viewpoint. I think the only reason in that industry people should work for free is if they have literally no portfolio at all. Once you have established value in your product then it's fair enough that the only conditions you choose to wave that value is for things you actively want to do, ie/ favours, projects your passionate about or whatever.

    Course given how adamant he is that "it doesn't have to be heavy"  I don't think Id want him mixing my stuff :)
    ဈǝᴉʇsɐoʇǝsǝǝɥɔဪቌ
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  • I think that's a reasonable viewpoint. I think the only reason in that industry people should work for free is if they have literally no portfolio at all. Once you have established value in your product then it's fair enough that the only conditions you choose to wave that value is for things you actively want to do, ie/ favours, projects your passionate about or whatever.

    Course given how adamant he is that "it doesn't have to be heavy"  I don't think Id want him mixing my stuff :)

    He's a big deal, if you weren't familiar with him.

    http://pulserecordings.com/clients/tony-maserati/
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  • PolarityManPolarityMan Frets: 7273
    That was a joke because my music is heavy and he kept saying "it doesnt have to be heavy" over and over again.
    ဈǝᴉʇsɐoʇǝsǝǝɥɔဪቌ
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    That was a joke because my music is heavy and he kept saying "it doesnt have to be heavy" over and over again.
    Don't worry, I got it.
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  • I also got the joke, was just pointing out he's a pretty huge deal in commercial music in case anyone was wondering where he's coming from.

    I guess the 'mix with the masters' title screen and huge console might've been a giveaway though lol
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  • FreebirdFreebird Frets: 5821

    He's a big deal, if you weren't familiar with him.

    http://pulserecordings.com/clients/tony-maserati/
    Yep, he's very successful, drives a Lamborghini too.
    If we are not ashamed to think it, we should not be ashamed to say it.
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  • monquixotemonquixote Frets: 17485
    tFB Trader
    I spoke to a guy a while back who used to make music videos, but had stopped because it was impossible to make a living anymore.

    He said essentially bands go to students and say they should make videos for bands for the "Exposure" which they then do for free with the equipment from the college.
    The kids and colleges love it because it's a band they've heard of and it's all very exciting. 
    Once they get into the marketplace there is no work for them because next year's intake are making the next batch of free music videos.
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  • FreebirdFreebird Frets: 5821
    edited August 2017
    I spoke to a guy a while back who used to make music videos, but had stopped because it was impossible to make a living anymore.

    He said essentially bands go to students and say they should make videos for bands for the "Exposure" which they then do for free with the equipment from the college.
    The kids and colleges love it because it's a band they've heard of and it's all very exciting. 
    Once they get into the marketplace there is no work for them because next year's intake are making the next batch of free music videos.
    The music business is screwed. I've got friends who signed with Universal Music and they were struggling to survive. It was only by getting tour support slots through their management company that kept them going.
    If we are not ashamed to think it, we should not be ashamed to say it.
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  • How good were the free videos? There's a higher entry cost to making good videos than good mixes still. All the lighting and camera equipment isn't cheap if you want to do it properly. 

    The problem is also probably circular. If nobody is making anything of actual value then nobody wins in the end.

    Well except the education institutions. 
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  • monquixotemonquixote Frets: 17485
    tFB Trader
    How good were the free videos? There's a higher entry cost to making good videos than good mixes still. All the lighting and camera equipment isn't cheap if you want to do it properly. 

    The problem is also probably circular. If nobody is making anything of actual value then nobody wins in the end.

    Well except the education institutions. 

    I don't know, I've never seen any of them. 

    In this case the students were making the videos using free equipment and facilities provided by their college and their tutor (who was himself an ex video director who had become a lecturer because he couldn't make a living) was helping them out.

    I don't think it would be anything a really huge band would be doing, but for a little indie, or metal band I think it's becoming standard practice.
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  • mellowsunmellowsun Frets: 2422
    I think it's like everything else: long slog followed by lucky break or find a niche.

    A friend of mine makes corporate videos and does all the accompanying music production also. Not glamourous but he has a great portfolio.
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 27574
    How good were the free videos? There's a higher entry cost to making good videos than good mixes still. All the lighting and camera equipment isn't cheap if you want to do it properly.
    The Universities are getting very well equipped for video making - full 4K suites, proper lighting, serious editing kit too.
    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
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  • Sporky said:
    How good were the free videos? There's a higher entry cost to making good videos than good mixes still. All the lighting and camera equipment isn't cheap if you want to do it properly.
    The Universities are getting very well equipped for video making - full 4K suites, proper lighting, serious editing kit too.

    I can believe that.  Same with recording schools/universities.

    It still doesn't mean the videos were good though, to the level they'd be competitive in the paid marketplace.

    I've been in this situation with some students before and it was a waste of everyone's time, despite the incredible gear and environment.  Ironically had we been paying for that session it would've been more likely to go well, because they'd have taken it more seriously too.  As it was, one of the two guys got a last minute offer for a DJ set in a nightclub (paid, due to a dropout) but could only make it if the other guy, who had a car, drove him, and we cut the 8hr session down to a 4hr session (which when you include setup/pack down of a large drumkit and mics isn't very long).  We were using the facility after close so couldn't stay in without a student, the end result being we got half as much time as we'd arranged and very little actual result.

    I'd rather pay someone then we're hopefully all on team let's try to do this properly.  Or I'll just take twice as long and do half as good a job as I wanted myself, but at least I know who was to blame and I'll hopefully learn something too.
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10356
    We had people working in 2020 for no money but free training. They had the use of the control room and live room in down time for their own use and I basically taught them how to patch from room to room, how to mic and how to use Protools. Over tasks included making coffee, running to Sainsburys to get food and talking to the clients etc. The best guy had a degree in broadcast  production, was great on Avid in terms of video but wanted to learn multitrack recording. I didn't consider it at the time as working for free as A: it was on their terms, if they didn't want to come in they didn't have to and B: I think what they learnt was worth something ... I don't know what but something !

    We also had a few school kids doing work experience for a couple of weeks. That could be draining, keeping them busy and making sure they didn't destroy anything
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • monquixotemonquixote Frets: 17485
    tFB Trader
    That sounds more like internship, or training so they were getting something out of it (including free studio time).
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  • Drew_TNBDDrew_TNBD Frets: 22445
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  • GulliverGulliver Frets: 848
    How good were the free videos? 


    I don't know, I've never seen any of them. 

    In this case the students were making the videos using free equipment and facilities provided by their college and their tutor (who was himself an ex video director who had become a lecturer because he couldn't make a living) was helping them out.

    I don't think it would be anything a really huge band would be doing, but for a little indie, or metal band I think it's becoming standard practice.

    Here's a video my old band did by befriending a film student and I think we paid him for his time (it's amazing how much work students will do in a day for £50)


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