Focus 90% Of Your Practise Time On SKILLS and only 10% On Songs... Here's Why

Plectrum

cruxiform said:

What happened to learning 3 chords, writing a few songs and forming a band?

The danger is that you might end up 27,000 times more successful than the OP (who even as I type this is probably stacking shelves somewhere ) and that would NEVER do

Lestratcaster

With my learners I build up muscle memory and timing skills first before applying to a song, so in some ways it similar, playing a song requires different techniques such as changing chords, picking strings, rhythm and memorising sections. All transferable between styles.

tomhalliwell93

bingefeller said:

Philtre said:

Have a good time, all the time.

Viv Savage!!

Anyway, I disagree with the premise of your video.  That is going to get boring really fast and will do nothing to improve the player's vocabulary.  A player could learn songs that call for certain techniques, like alternate picking, and they could build up their skills works on a particular song.  For example, learning a Fear Factory song is going to give a good alternate picking work out and will beat the hell out of spending hours on scales and patterns against an unmusical click.

Not talking about intermediate or advanced here.. this was just for Complete Beginners

tomhalliwell93

octatonic said:

bingefeller said:

Philtre said:

Have a good time, all the time.

Viv Savage!!

Anyway, I disagree with the premise of your video.  That is going to get boring really fast and will do nothing to improve the player's vocabulary.  A player could learn songs that call for certain techniques, like alternate picking, and they could build up their skills works on a particular song.  For example, learning a Fear Factory song is going to give a good alternate picking work out and will beat the hell out of spending hours on scales and patterns against an unmusical click.

Exactly.
And I'm someone who spent years in a room running all the permutations of finger exercises, arpeggios, scales and such.
That is all good stuff to do but learning songs is more important.

The OP comes across as a recent graduate of a music school- that is all well and good and there is a place for the sort of playing you get taught at music college.
I'd be interested if he thinks the same thing 10 years from now.

Having a fixed idea of what players should spend their time on is a mistake because you don't know the goal of that player.

I probably spend 50% on learning songs and 50% on technique and I consider myself to be a very technique heavy kinda player.

The OP also fails to acknowledge that the most useful skill for a musician is transcription.
If you want to be a shredder then running scales and arpeggios is only part of the work.
The next, more important bit is to find ways to apply that learning and the most efficient way to do this is by transcribing solos.
You learn how to apply thing things you've learned by studying the greats who have come before you.
There is no better way.

Again.. Just like the previous guy.. Thats great advice for advanced guitarists.. but for a complete beginner.. guitar is overwhelming and without any skills.. trying to transcribe a song is useless and highly irresponsible as a teacher.. If someone asked me to transcribe a conversation in russian.. it would be almost impossible.. i have no skill, no grammar or vocabulary understanding

stratman3142

This "make a bold statement to get attention" thing is becoming tiresome to me but seems to be getting more prevalent these days, even amongst those whose channels I follow and respect.

Wazmeister

stratman3142 said:

This "make a bold statement to get attention" thing is becoming tiresome to me but seems to be getting more prevalent these days, even amongst those whose channels I follow and respect.

I agree mate... 


I'm sure the guy means well, but I've just commented in his other thread. Me personally, I found both threads a bit too "in my face" and loud. There is something annoying about continually being told what to do...

Just sayin'....

mellowsun

tomhalliwell93 said:

octatonic said:

bingefeller said:

Philtre said:

Have a good time, all the time.

Viv Savage!!

Anyway, I disagree with the premise of your video.  That is going to get boring really fast and will do nothing to improve the player's vocabulary.  A player could learn songs that call for certain techniques, like alternate picking, and they could build up their skills works on a particular song.  For example, learning a Fear Factory song is going to give a good alternate picking work out and will beat the hell out of spending hours on scales and patterns against an unmusical click.

Exactly.
And I'm someone who spent years in a room running all the permutations of finger exercises, arpeggios, scales and such.
That is all good stuff to do but learning songs is more important.

The OP comes across as a recent graduate of a music school- that is all well and good and there is a place for the sort of playing you get taught at music college.
I'd be interested if he thinks the same thing 10 years from now.

Having a fixed idea of what players should spend their time on is a mistake because you don't know the goal of that player.

I probably spend 50% on learning songs and 50% on technique and I consider myself to be a very technique heavy kinda player.

The OP also fails to acknowledge that the most useful skill for a musician is transcription.
If you want to be a shredder then running scales and arpeggios is only part of the work.
The next, more important bit is to find ways to apply that learning and the most efficient way to do this is by transcribing solos.
You learn how to apply thing things you've learned by studying the greats who have come before you.
There is no better way.

Again.. Just like the previous guy.. Thats great advice for advanced guitarists.. but for a complete beginner.. guitar is overwhelming and without any skills.. trying to transcribe a song is useless and highly irresponsible as a teacher.. If someone asked me to transcribe a conversation in russian.. it would be almost impossible.. i have no skill, no grammar or vocabulary understanding

Wrong. Read interviews with many  top players, they all started out endlesslessly rewinding tapes learning stuff by ear, without a clue as to what notes they were playing. They learnt what sounded good.

Philtre

We learn and improve via a mixture of all kinds of things - learning songs, practising skills, watching YT videos, transcribing (was for me, at least), getting it wrong, fixing it, analysing, listening and so on. The OP has some fair enough points but to assert a 90/10 mixture is complete BS.

bingefeller

tomhalliwell93 said:

bingefeller said:

Philtre said:

Have a good time, all the time.

Viv Savage!!

Anyway, I disagree with the premise of your video.  That is going to get boring really fast and will do nothing to improve the player's vocabulary.  A player could learn songs that call for certain techniques, like alternate picking, and they could build up their skills works on a particular song.  For example, learning a Fear Factory song is going to give a good alternate picking work out and will beat the hell out of spending hours on scales and patterns against an unmusical click.

Not talking about intermediate or advanced here.. this was just for Complete Beginners

I'm talking about beginners as well. 

Sit a beginner down and have them learn fingerings and chord changes is only going to go so far.  Have them learn them in a context of a song is going to be way more interesting for them.  Why isolate chords without context?  That's not making music which, at the end of the day, is most likely the ultimate goal.

Philtre

Took classical violin lessons from age 10-13. We were taught pieces 90% of the time, and skills and technique just sort of followed (10%). Oh, and I taught myself vibrato, because it sounded shite without it.

guitarfishbay

Wazmeister said:

stratman3142 said:

This "make a bold statement to get attention" thing is becoming tiresome to me but seems to be getting more prevalent these days, even amongst those whose channels I follow and respect.

I agree mate... 


I'm sure the guy means well, but I've just commented in his other thread. Me personally, I found both threads a bit too "in my face" and loud. There is something annoying about continually being told what to do...

Just sayin'....

It's the equivalent of walking into a pub and stopping everyone's conversations.

Tom.. this is a forum and everyone likes to discuss things, especially music.

However, treating it like it's an extension of YouTube or Facebook doesn't work. There are several great players here, dealers and manufacturers too, but the ethos and point of the forum is to not spam like it's an advertising platform... Its to chat with a bunch of mates

If you join in and chat to people then you'll get a better response.

Best of luck with your YT channel

Roland

@stratman3142 ;; said:

This "make a bold statement to get attention" thing is becoming tiresome to me but seems to be getting more prevalent these days, even amongst those whose channels I follow and respect.

Unfortunately it's the advice given to anyone wanting to get noticed on the internet.

Iamnobody

Got bored at 1:50 after you'd rambled on about being able to do more podcasts now and you couldn't do many before or something. I turned it off at that point.

octatonic

tomhalliwell93 said:

octatonic said:

bingefeller said:

Philtre said:

Have a good time, all the time.

Viv Savage!!

Anyway, I disagree with the premise of your video.  That is going to get boring really fast and will do nothing to improve the player's vocabulary.  A player could learn songs that call for certain techniques, like alternate picking, and they could build up their skills works on a particular song.  For example, learning a Fear Factory song is going to give a good alternate picking work out and will beat the hell out of spending hours on scales and patterns against an unmusical click.

Exactly.
And I'm someone who spent years in a room running all the permutations of finger exercises, arpeggios, scales and such.
That is all good stuff to do but learning songs is more important.

The OP comes across as a recent graduate of a music school- that is all well and good and there is a place for the sort of playing you get taught at music college.
I'd be interested if he thinks the same thing 10 years from now.

Having a fixed idea of what players should spend their time on is a mistake because you don't know the goal of that player.

I probably spend 50% on learning songs and 50% on technique and I consider myself to be a very technique heavy kinda player.

The OP also fails to acknowledge that the most useful skill for a musician is transcription.
If you want to be a shredder then running scales and arpeggios is only part of the work.
The next, more important bit is to find ways to apply that learning and the most efficient way to do this is by transcribing solos.
You learn how to apply thing things you've learned by studying the greats who have come before you.
There is no better way.

Again.. Just like the previous guy.. Thats great advice for advanced guitarists.. but for a complete beginner.. guitar is overwhelming and without any skills.. trying to transcribe a song is useless and highly irresponsible as a teacher.. If someone asked me to transcribe a conversation in russian.. it would be almost impossible.. i have no skill, no grammar or vocabulary understanding

As mellowsun indicates above the greats transcribed early in their playing careers.
Clearly as you progress you get better at it but the time to start is as early as you can.

You come across as somone who has a fixed approach to teaching.
What I can tell you though is you have to be flexible in how you teach.
Students all have different goals, aspirations and available time- you have to bend your method to fit them.
When I started teaching in 1992, at age 20 I also had very fixed ideas.
In the subsequent 25 years of doing it I've learned that you have to give the student the next piece of the puzzle that they need to progress.
That piece is different for each student.

Having a fixed method is easy for you, the teacher, because you just drip feed them the next bit in your method but it is rarely good for them.
I'm not impressed with your assessment that I'm 'highly irresponsible' for having students transcribe. That is a pretty ignorant thing to say too, because you don't understand that what I do is show them how to transcribe. 
There are also several different ways to do that.

mike_l

I started teaching a mate to play, the best way for him was to pick a song (between us) and for him to learn the techniques to play that song together with the scales and chords (lesson 1) and the next time to play the song as one (lesson 2). I'd given him some stuff to practise for finger strength and timing etc before hand.

Flink_Poyd

I've tried listening to your podcast but only managed 10 or so minutes. 

Here's why 
You really do waffle on, 12 mins in and you haven't explained anything of note, just going on about rock climbing and boxing analogies. 
 Also I'm not sure who this is aimed at. Beginners? If so you'll have lost them already as you're describing a chord progression and the key its in. Not exactly beginner friendly.  
Intermediate? It's no use to us as we're over that hill already. 
Other teachers? I doubt many would take notice. 

If you want to gain a following on social media you've got to be more professional. Videos in the bedroom with washing in the background or in your conservatory just don't cut it nowadays 

Lestratcaster

Agree with it going on a bit, just get to the point and keep it simple for beginners, people won't sit and listen to 10 minutes let alone 25 minutes of irrelevant to too easy/advanced material

Danji

Flink_Poyd said:

You really do waffle on, 12 mins in and you haven't explained anything of note, just going on about rock climbing and boxing analogies.  

Yes, when I heard this I couldn't reconcile sport vs music. I feel for this guy, but he's got it wrong as you can be.

octatonic

Flink_Poyd said:

I've tried listening to your podcast but only managed 10 or so minutes. 

Here's why 
You really do waffle on, 12 mins in and you haven't explained anything of note, just going on about rock climbing and boxing analogies. 
 Also I'm not sure who this is aimed at. Beginners? If so you'll have lost them already as you're describing a chord progression and the key its in. Not exactly beginner friendly.  
Intermediate? It's no use to us as we're over that hill already. 
Other teachers? I doubt many would take notice. 

If you want to gain a following on social media you've got to be more professional. Videos in the bedroom with washing in the background or in your conservatory just don't cut it nowadays 

Agree- in short go to the Justinguitar website and see how a pro does it.

FreddieVanHalen

This looks like a product of the cult of Tom Hess.....