Dispensing with the amp?

Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 24208
Just thinking aloud...  If you're playing using in-ears and your guitar is coming through the PA via a DI box, isn't the amp redundant(Questions of tone quality aside).?

It's never occurred to me before as I've never gigged with IEMs.

Has anyone tried this?  I could certainly do without lugging a heavy valve amp around!
Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
Also chips are "Plant-based" no matter how you cook them.
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Comments

  • PolarityManPolarityMan Frets: 7273
    unless you have a good modeller the sound going direct to PA wont be as good as mic'ing the amp. I have a boss GT-10 and going direct in sounds pretty pants compared to through my JVm first. If you had an axefx or a helix maybe a different story

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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 24208
    Fair point.  I'll get a DI box rather than mic up.  It's cheaper for one and I'm happy to trade whatever the speaker adds to the tone for lack of bleed over from everything else.
    Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
    Also chips are "Plant-based" no matter how you cook them.
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  • PolarityManPolarityMan Frets: 7273
    You don't get that much bleed. Mic'ing sounds much better than taking  even a speaker emulated line out. Even a cheap mic will do. For one of our guitars we use a Behringer SM57 rip off and we finally our rehearsals on IEMs.
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 24601
    Emp_Fab said:
    Just thinking aloud...  If you're playing using in-ears and your guitar is coming through the PA via a DI box, isn't the amp redundant(Questions of tone quality aside).?

    It's never occurred to me before as I've never gigged with IEMs.

    Has anyone tried this?  I could certainly do without lugging a heavy valve amp around!
    John McLaughlin hasn't used an amp for years .. for many years he had a laptop and Amplitube but recently has a pedalbord that goes out to the PA.

    http://www.godinguitars.com/johnmclaughlin_07.htm


    Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71953
    Emp_Fab said:
    Fair point.  I'll get a DI box rather than mic up.  It's cheaper for one and I'm happy to trade whatever the speaker adds to the tone for lack of bleed over from everything else.
    Just use a cheap passive (transformer-based - really, they sound better for this sort of thing) DI box from your FX unit/modeller, with the speaker emulator engaged. Does it sound as good as a mic'ed real amp? Probably not. Does it sound acceptably good to the audience? Probably. Can you even tell given that the soundman can bugger your entire sound just by turning this little knob a tiny bit?

    http://photos.imageevent.com/wiley/jetsam/large/FarSide.jpg


    Really, don't worry about it… loads of people have been using DI'd sounds since before there were even decent modellers, and sounded OK. If you're using in-ears as well then the amp is really redundant, to be honest.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • monquixotemonquixote Frets: 17485
    tFB Trader
    With the setup you are going for a modeller to the desk is not a pad way to go.

    Cheapest thing you are going to get that sounds the biz is an Amplifire
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  • blobbblobb Frets: 2914
    Fretwired said:
    Emp_Fab said:
    Just thinking aloud...  If you're playing using in-ears and your guitar is coming through the PA via a DI box, isn't the amp redundant(Questions of tone quality aside).?

    It's never occurred to me before as I've never gigged with IEMs.

    Has anyone tried this?  I could certainly do without lugging a heavy valve amp around!
    John McLaughlin hasn't used an amp for years .. for many years he had a laptop and Amplitube but recently has a pedalbord that goes out to the PA.

    http://www.godinguitars.com/johnmclaughlin_07.htm

    Steve Hillage does something similar now.
    Feelin' Reelin' & Squeelin'
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 24208
    With the setup you are going for a modeller to the desk is not a pad way to go.

    Cheapest thing you are going to get that sounds the biz is an Amplifire
    At 600 bucks, I'm thinking 'screw the audience - they'll have what they get' !  Seriously, we're a tupenny ha'penny covers band with two or three gigs a month.  I'm not spending that!

    It'll either be a line out from the FX to the desk with no amp or a DI'd signal / Mic'd up signal to the desk.  Cheap mic or cheap DI too!
    Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
    Also chips are "Plant-based" no matter how you cook them.
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  • monquixotemonquixote Frets: 17485
    tFB Trader
    Emp_Fab said:
    With the setup you are going for a modeller to the desk is not a pad way to go.

    Cheapest thing you are going to get that sounds the biz is an Amplifire
    At 600 bucks, I'm thinking 'screw the audience - they'll have what they get' !  Seriously, we're a tupenny ha'penny covers band with two or three gigs a month.  I'm not spending that!

    It'll either be a line out from the FX to the desk with no amp or a DI'd signal / Mic'd up signal to the desk.  Cheap mic or cheap DI too!

    Fair enough.

    Zoom G3 is beans and sounds alright
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10356
    I've been on ears for 5 years or more but always generally use an amp as the  amp isn't redundant, just the speaker is but putting a cheap mic on the speaker is still the cheapest easiest way and even a cheap Behringer XM1800 or similar £25 mic sounds fine. What is does mean is you don't need a big amp anymore I spose 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    Fretwired said:
    Emp_Fab said:
    Just thinking aloud...  If you're playing using in-ears and your guitar is coming through the PA via a DI box, isn't the amp redundant(Questions of tone quality aside).?

    It's never occurred to me before as I've never gigged with IEMs.

    Has anyone tried this?  I could certainly do without lugging a heavy valve amp around!
    John McLaughlin hasn't used an amp for years .. for many years he had a laptop and Amplitube but recently has a pedalbord that goes out to the PA.

    http://www.godinguitars.com/johnmclaughlin_07.htm

    He does have a pretty atypical guitar tone though- quite bright and spikey- almost like a piezo acoustic guitar.
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  • ESBlondeESBlonde Frets: 3576
    Size is no longer important. There I said it. A small amp or combo on stage gives you the feel and touch response while being simple to mic and carry.
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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 24208
    I'm curious why the lack of love for DI-ing.  What's so great about miking up?  I could understand if I was using some boutique amp where the speaker is a crucial element in the tone, but for a HRD ?
    Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
    Also chips are "Plant-based" no matter how you cook them.
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10356
    Emp_Fab said:
    I'm curious why the lack of love for DI-ing.  What's so great about miking up?  I could understand if I was using some boutique amp where the speaker is a crucial element in the tone, but for a HRD ?
    Well a straight Di with a dirty sound will sound like wasps in a jam jar as it's the restricted frequency response of the speaker that makes a dirty guitar palatable to our ears .... unless you like the kinda tone used on a Girl Like You or some of the Carpenters solo's :)
    There are some cheap solutions, I could build a DI speaker simm for around £30 but's still more than a mic ... which can also be used for other stuff

    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 24601
    octatonic said:
    Fretwired said:
    Emp_Fab said:
    Just thinking aloud...  If you're playing using in-ears and your guitar is coming through the PA via a DI box, isn't the amp redundant(Questions of tone quality aside).?

    It's never occurred to me before as I've never gigged with IEMs.

    Has anyone tried this?  I could certainly do without lugging a heavy valve amp around!
    John McLaughlin hasn't used an amp for years .. for many years he had a laptop and Amplitube but recently has a pedalbord that goes out to the PA.

    http://www.godinguitars.com/johnmclaughlin_07.htm

    He does have a pretty atypical guitar tone though- quite bright and spikey- almost like a piezo acoustic guitar.
    That was the Godin guitars he played .. his tone is different since Paul Reed Smith started making guitars for him .. still bright though ...




    Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
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  • John_PJohn_P Frets: 2744
    I did a couple of gigs yesterday and used a di - atomic amplifire with a little Bognor combo for monitoring.    One set I used in ears and the combo was for the band.   

    There me are plenty of cheap solutions for a decent sound via di if you just want to add onto your setup rather than change it.  
    I'd have a look at either a hk red box type di with speaker sim built in or a tech21 character pedal (or the cheap joyo copies)  or the new mooer amp in a box pedals.     A red box might be the easiest add on imo.  


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  • this looks like an interesting and affordable solution from Radial Engineering due in the shops very soon ...

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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 24208
    Danny1969 said:
    Emp_Fab said:
    I'm curious why the lack of love for DI-ing.  What's so great about miking up?  I could understand if I was using some boutique amp where the speaker is a crucial element in the tone, but for a HRD ?
    Well a straight Di with a dirty sound will sound like wasps in a jam jar as it's the restricted frequency response of the speaker that makes a dirty guitar palatable to our ears .... unless you like the kinda tone used on a Girl Like You or some of the Carpenters solo's :)
    There are some cheap solutions, I could build a DI speaker simm for around £30 but's still more than a mic ... which can also be used for other stuff

    @Danny1969 You're not wrong mate.  I tried my setup for the first time this week, taking the feed for my guitar from the line-out of my ME50 into my Xenix mini mixer that was driving my earphones.  Jesus H... what a horrible buzzy tone!  I've ditched that plan now and bought a mic and mini stand to mic-up the amp instead.  Thanks for the tip.
    Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
    Also chips are "Plant-based" no matter how you cook them.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71953
    Emp_Fab said:

    I tried my setup for the first time this week, taking the feed for my guitar from the line-out of my ME50 into my Xenix mini mixer that was driving my earphones.  Jesus H... what a horrible buzzy tone!  I've ditched that plan now and bought a mic and mini stand to mic-up the amp instead.  Thanks for the tip.
    And the ME50 line out is actually (allegedly) emulated as well! If you think that's bad, try the standard output :).

    The line output is better if you go via a Red Box.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • Emp_Fab said:
    Danny1969 said:
    Emp_Fab said:
    I'm curious why the lack of love for DI-ing.  What's so great about miking up?  I could understand if I was using some boutique amp where the speaker is a crucial element in the tone, but for a HRD ?
    Well a straight Di with a dirty sound will sound like wasps in a jam jar as it's the restricted frequency response of the speaker that makes a dirty guitar palatable to our ears .... unless you like the kinda tone used on a Girl Like You or some of the Carpenters solo's :)
    There are some cheap solutions, I could build a DI speaker simm for around £30 but's still more than a mic ... which can also be used for other stuff

    @Danny1969 You're not wrong mate.  I tried my setup for the first time this week, taking the feed for my guitar from the line-out of my ME50 into my Xenix mini mixer that was driving my earphones.  Jesus H... what a horrible buzzy tone!  I've ditched that plan now and bought a mic and mini stand to mic-up the amp instead.  Thanks for the tip.
    Dude I told you that in the first reply to this thread!
    ဈǝᴉʇsɐoʇǝsǝǝɥɔဪቌ
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