Has the boutique bubble burst??

IvisonGuitars

Apologies for the sensationalist 'click bait' title but just observing the classifieds and there seems to be a LOT of high end boutique amps that don't seem to be moving as quickly as they were 12 months ago.

Two Rock, Swart, Friedman, Louis Electric, Gartone, Cornell, Victoria, Bad Cat, Flynn, Headstrong....and that's just in the first 2 pages of the classifieds! (A boutique amp fans wet dream I might add!) Even a few Carr's hanging round at the minute, where, 12 months ago, I would have said that they would be the amps that moved quickly.

So is boutique having a lull? Are sellers pricing them too high after the initial outlay? Are 'production' amps getting better or are people just watching what they are spending currently?

Zoolooter

I think most people that were/are in the market for a Carr, Louis, Flynn, Rift, etc, are sorted now and happy with what they've got. Plus, there's a limited amount of buyers that have instant access to £1000 +

fretfinder

Interesting observation. The used market is definitely depressed overall, probably more for high-end gear than other stuff. And some of those boutique brands are very expensive new, even more so now thanks to Brexit leavers and the pound/ dollar rate of exchange.

I also think sometimes seller prices are too high for used gear - understandably it's hard to stomach that you've just dropped a grand or more on that amp which you were convinced was 'the one' when you tried it in the shop. Everything will sell at the right price though, and people on here who really want to sell generally reduce the price bit by bit and sure enough it goes eventually.

So, personally I don't think that boutique amps are having a lull or becoming less desirable, I think it's more the depressed market combined with some unrealistic asking prices. 

timmysoft

the used market on the whole is very stagnant. Great if you're buying but shittty if you're selling. 

 The boutique thing is a bit of a joke, just like the vintage market. 

RaymondLin

Well, unless the forum has had a constant sign up of users with these kind of funds all the time, eventually someone will be happy with what they've got.

I am happy with what i've got and no interest in adding any more amps, i don't think the bubble itself has burst but my own needs are satisfied. 

victorludorum

The fact that these amps are shifted around so often speaks volumes. People have cottoned on to the constant presence of ads for Lazy Js, Carrs etc etc, that are being sold 'because they're not really being played and are making way for something else'. I'm sure they're great amps, but the law of ever decreasing returns really applies here I think. Is Amp 1 (which has a six month waiting list and costs over twice the price of Amp 2) really that much better?

ICBM

There are only so many ways you can re-invent the same wheel.

richardhomer

I suspect a lot of 'home' players simply can't justify the price of a high-end amp and the 'fads' around some brands seem to devalue them on the second hand market, after something else comes along that is the new flavour of the month.

Interestingly, every PRRI which comes up in the classifieds seems to sell quickly - and used prices are much higher (as to be fair is the new price) than they were a couple of years ago.

I think it's easy for a major brand amp to achieve 'classic' status - but smaller brands seem to have their moment in the sun, then fade in popularity.

That said, if I had a spare £450 I'd snatch your hand off for your Bad Cat!

IvisonGuitars

richardhomer said:

I suspect a lot of 'home' players simply can't justify the price of a high-end amp and the 'fads' around some brands seem to devalue them on the second hand market, after something else comes along that is the new flavour of the month.

Interestingly, every PRRI which comes up in the classifieds seems to sell quickly - and used prices are much higher (as to be fair is the new price) than they were a couple of years ago.

I think it's easy for a major brand amp to achieve 'classic' status - but smaller brands seem to have their moment in the sun, then fade in popularity.

That said, if I had a spare £450 I'd snatch your hand off for your Bad Cat!

Sorry, Rich, that's just gone to a forum pal.

This wasn't a thinly veiled advert by the way

Some good points/reasons raised here, I agree with most, I was the epitome of a 'tone chaser' for a while as my rather embarrassing post in the Amp Journey thread will attest. And, rather tellingly, after the countless £££ spent on the next 'great hope', I still have the original Bad Cat Black Cat that started my whole boutique obsession off.

JezWynd

ICBM said:

There are only so many ways you can re-invent the same wheel.

Exactly.

'Glassy' cleans? - Princeton Reverb

'Gorgeous' edge of break up? - Princeton Reverb

'Tone' to die for? - Princeton Reverb

Wasn't that difficult was it.

tone1

I've had Two Rock, Carr Mercury and Skylark etc, which are all over a grand but for less than £100 I've now got a Blackstar HT1R head. 
Through a 12" Tone Tubby  it sounds fantastic. I only play at home but bloody hell its ace..it doesn't stop me looking though

Freebird

miserneil said:

Two Rock, Swart, Friedman, Louis Electric, Gartone, Cornell, Victoria, Bad Cat, Flynn, Headstrong....and that's just in the first 2 pages of the classifieds! (A boutique amp fans wet dream I might add!) Even a few Carr's hanging round at the minute

I've got most of these inside my Kemper    Could amp modeling be the culprit? Lot's of people seem to be making the jump. I'd still love to own all of these though, if I ever won the lottery 

revsorg

There was that interview with the head of Fender recently where he was distinguishing between people who try out the electric guitar and promptly give up, and the people who keep going and buy lots of instruments. Maybe you can buy lots and lots of guitars, dozens even, but there comes a point where there's just no point adding another amp.  There are currently four amps in my house, got a Cornell custom on the way but I'm just running out of space.

dindude

I just think the boutique amp market is flooded, as simple as that. There are loads out there now and it's always been a nich market. Can get some great bargains because of this though, all the non-believers should go and snap them up

RaymondLin

revsorg said:

There was that interview with the head of Fender recently where he was distinguishing between people who try out the electric guitar and promptly give up, and the people who keep going and buy lots of instruments. Maybe you can buy lots and lots of guitars, dozens even, but there comes a point where there's just no point adding another amp.  There are currently four amps in my house, got a Cornell custom on the way but I'm just running out of space.

Also, after a certain price point, they are all good in their own right, and when you found that sound that you have, you are not going to change.  

bacchanalian

There is a local music shop that does a pretty brisk trade in commission sales. Some very nice gear passes through.
I was chatting to the owner about some very reasonable prices on valve amps and he said that amplifiers of any size are really difficult to shift. Seems that many home players are going the modelling route.
Also, I think diminishing returns sets in very fast. Would you rather have an American standard strat and a boutique amp or a RI 65 Princeton and used custom shop strat? Hmm...
Finally, there is only a small percentage of the guitar playing community interested in boutique. Outside of that audience there would be little interest in the difference between a Victoria and a Blues Junior and during a live set, even less chance that even the guitar players could hear a difference.

Having said all of that, knowing what I know now, I would still go with a small scale manufacturer but maybe UK like Rift.
 

richardhomer

miserneil said:
Sorry, Rich, that's just gone to a forum pal.

Good - glad you made the sale and I don't have to keep thinking where I could get the money from!

RaymondLin

bacchanalian said:

There is a local music shop that does a pretty brisk trade in commission sales. Some very nice gear passes through.
I was chatting to the owner about some very reasonable prices on valve amps and he said that amplifiers of any size are really difficult to shift. Seems that many home players are going the modelling route.
Also, I think diminishing returns sets in very fast. Would you rather have an American standard strat and a boutique amp or a RI 65 Princeton and used custom shop strat? Hmm...
Finally, there is only a small percentage of the guitar playing community interested in boutique. Outside of that audience there would be little interest in the difference between a Victoria and a Blues Junior and during a live set, even less chance that even the guitar players could hear a difference.

Having said all of that, knowing what I know now, I would still go with a small scale manufacturer but maybe UK like Rift.
 

Ah that, yes.  If you have a fixed budget, it is much cooler to have a cool guitar and a decent amp than a good guitar and a boutique amp.

pmg

The rise of Helix, Axe FX et al is likely playing a part but the whole used market is in a slump.

RiftAmps

It's just an exercise in Supply and Demand.

Demand for new boutique amplifiers is very high, which then increases waiting lists, which in turn increases demand (I can't have one now, which means I want more even more).

The secondhand market reacts to this...a seller simply says "If you want one of these amps, you can either order a new one and wait, or buy mine for the same price, your call". This also then adds a further benefit to buyers of the new amps - If I don't like it, I can get my money back. Zero risk. The only true cost is time.

Until the manufacturers reduce their lead times, the situation will remain the same.

RaymondLin

pmg said:

The rise of Helix, Axe FX et al is likely playing a part but the whole used market is in a slump.

Like Vinyl, sings and roundabouts.