Has the boutique bubble burst??

AlexC

I was reading recently and have been told by a few shop owners that the sale of guitars - and therefore all guitar related gear - is at the lowest it's been for years. Sure there's many factors involved, but the main one is, apparently, the fact that the number of 12-25 yr old entry level players has radically dropped. The majority are t listening to guitar based music and aren't prepared to put the graft into learning a 'real' instrument. Think what you like about Grunge and Britpop, but the sale of guitars went up in the 1990s. Silver lining is, I guess, these things tend to work round in ten year cycles.

bbill335

ICBM said:

There are only so many ways you can re-invent the same wheel.

I'm surprised there hasn't been more "deinvention". No-nonsense cheaply built amps with classic voicing. Like the joyo tweed deluxe that never seemed to take off. 

Imagine if someone did an MIC blackface deluxe clone with one channel, no tremolo, cheap transformers, call it the "sparkle sixties" or something else dumb. If you could do that for ~400 I'm sure you'd dent HRDx sales. 

hotpickups

Boutique amps still tend to be cheaper than when fender or maybe shall decide to bring out a limited edition, hand wired , vintage correct amp IMO. Still love my J20 and Dualist amps. No need to ever get another amp tbh

Wazmeister

I guess we are talking mainly about our little economy here on this forum ?

Well, there has been (imho) a main core of buyers who have operated on here for a few years now... buying and selling gear, swopping, trying and changing. 

As one of these buyers, Im now settled for a wee while, as are many others it seems. The outcome ? Less sales of the high end stuff...

Also, many of us now see through the BS that has surrounded some sales and gear now.

Boutique, epsecially in pedal world, doesnt always mean 'good' or 'great'...

Likewise, Im not sure if Id spend a lot of money on high end, unknown, boutique stuff that is hard to sell on...

ICBM

bbill335 said:

I'm surprised there hasn't been more "deinvention". No-nonsense cheaply built amps with classic voicing.

You mean like Jet City? Not that they're particularly 'cheaply built' in terms of quality…

I could see the valve amp market moving back that way, away from all-singing-all-dancing channel switchers with power control and all manner of stuff which costs a fortune to implement and increases long-term reliability and obsolescence problems.

hotpickups

Funnily enough I bought my Dualist to stop me doing just that I.e. Buying and selling on after trying it etc. I'd lose too much money on it but I have no need to do that as it's all I'd need anyway. Two great amps that I use in stereo on occasions

RaymondLin

The thing is that there will always be a perception that higher price = better.  It happens in other areas like wine.  It's partly psychological so there will always be a boutique market and there will always be an audience for it.

Collings

I;ve just sold two high value boutique amps and both sold within a week on Gumtree and both for more than I paid for them used. Loads of interest in them as well so there is a market still if you price fairly. I sold as I could not justify having that many amps and use modelling at home. I still have other boutique amps as for me they are still the best for live use.

crunchman

Freebird said:

miserneil said:

Two Rock, Swart, Friedman, Louis Electric, Gartone, Cornell, Victoria, Bad Cat, Flynn, Headstrong....and that's just in the first 2 pages of the classifieds! (A boutique amp fans wet dream I might add!) Even a few Carr's hanging round at the minute

I've got most of these inside my Kemper    Could amp modeling be the culprit? Lot's of people seem to be making the jump. I'd still love to own all of these though, if I ever won the lottery 

This is part of it.  I love my Lazy J, but I've thinned down everything else since I got my Kemper.

I've got a couple of 5W amps at home, and a I took a PRRI in part ex on a guitar I sold last year, but the Kemper sees far more use than any of them.  I am planning to sell one or two - purely because I've got the Kemper.

I can easily envisage just having the Lazy J, the Kemper, and maybe a Blackstar Fly for testing pedal builds with, to be confident I won't damage the Kemper.

AlexC

Should we judge the worth of all equipment based on its re-sale value? Everything depreciates aside from property. And precious metals. And that Prince cd which you bought and sold on because it was rubbish and is now collectable and worth £200.

JezWynd

bbill335 said:

ICBM said:

There are only so many ways you can re-invent the same wheel.

I'm surprised there hasn't been more "deinvention". No-nonsense cheaply built amps with classic voicing. Like the joyo tweed deluxe that never seemed to take off. 

Imagine if someone did an MIC blackface deluxe clone with one channel, no tremolo, cheap transformers, call it the "sparkle sixties" or something else dumb. If you could do that for ~400 I'm sure you'd dent HRDx sales. 

Didn't Fender do something similar recently with the Excelsior, Vaporiser etc.. 

ICBM

JezWynd said:

Didn't Fender do something similar recently with the Excelsior, Vaporiser etc.. 

Except that they weren't no-nonsense, and didn't have classic Fender voicing. They were based around a styling concept rather than the amp circuit itself, and although they *did* sound good, not in a typical Fender way.

They - or at least the Excelsior, I haven't seen inside a Vaporizer - were also rather poorly built and a pain in the backside to work on.

menamestom

It's a curious phenomena, that many people demand amps that will last forever, with bomb proof construction, with the servicability only hand wired tag board or similar can achieve. Then sell them in a time period less than the warranty on a cheaper amp, that cost less than the money lost on the more expensive amp.

clarkefan

I think it's a combination of getting caught up in; loads of people on the internet saying how amazeballs an amp is, not trying stuff yourself, tying up vast amounts of cash you think you can afford, then trying to sell when panic sets in.

It's human nature to think it must be amazing if loads of people say it is, we're all "guilty" of it.  Takes a couple of baths before it dawns on you that the "extra 5 percent" isn't actually worth the extra 2 grand over a Marshall or Fender to you personally. Ditto guitars, etc.

Pablo

bbill335 said:

ICBM said:

There are only so many ways you can re-invent the same wheel.

I'm surprised there hasn't been more "deinvention". No-nonsense cheaply built amps with classic voicing. Like the joyo tweed deluxe that never seemed to take off. 

Imagine if someone did an MIC blackface deluxe clone with one channel, no tremolo, cheap transformers, call it the "sparkle sixties" or something else dumb. If you could do that for ~400 I'm sure you'd dent HRDx sales. 

Isn't this what VHT tried with the special 6 and the 12/20? They didn't seem to take off the way Jet City did. Maybe Soldano's name helped with marketing?

Dodge

Pablo said:

Isn't this what VHT tried with the special 6 and the 12/20? They didn't seem to take off the way Jet City did. Maybe Soldano's name helped with marketing?

Probably because the quality was shit. I speak from experience having owned a Special 6 and a 12/20. Sounded good though.

Jez6345789

Kemper, Axe Fx and the whole new generation of digital stuff have made the one trick pony boutique amps look expensive and exactly that one trick. 

I am sure all the fans of these things will bay its just not the same sure its not but its good enough and flexible. 

nickb_boy

As @Wazmeister has said there's definitely been some slowing and change in direction for a few of the forum frequent flyers that kept the conveyor belt of the classifieds in motion over recent years.  

I've also noticed a few less gushing/sales pitch NAD threads which had previously acted like the floodlight to the GAS moths in an attempt to hold resale value to them.  There has also been a lack of a stand out flavour of the month recently which I personally see as a positive move.  

A lot of folk have moved down the digital route but for me there has been as shift in the opposite direction towards vintage gear.  Now I'm not gigging and have no worries about transporting stuff or worrying if it'll stand up to abuse at volume whilst remaining reliable night in night out I've decided to make the most of it.  Even in this current climate the realisation that I've been able to pick up genuine vintage amps for far less than their boutique replicas has been eye opening.  Fair enough they may not have the modern appointments and bolt ons that are currently offered but if I want a tweed or brownface tone what better way than plugging straight in to a 60 year old amp rather than something trying to mimic it.  

ToneControl

I sold most of my boutique amps after I got an AxeFx2
Probably many doing the same
I had a lot of trouble selling most of those amps

RaymondLin

If everyone uses digital amps in the future, it will get to a point where you wonder "is this what the real thing sounds like?"

It's a bit like making music on garage band using the built in guitar, opposed to playing the real thing.  At some point people will get curious and will go back buying some valve amps again.