Delay Comparisons (Nemesis, Timeline, DD500, FX8, Helix)

Drew_TNBD

Threw this video together just now. I was really curious to compare the oscillation characteristics of the analog delays across these delays. Be interested to hear what you think!

Legionreturns

Interesting. Also, you have too much expensive gear! 

Fretwired

Cool video and thanks for sharing. Did you engage the high pass filter on the Timeline? It would have removed some of the low end mud in the second example ..

Grunfeld

It's like hearing an Eskimo talk about snow.  Really really echoey snow.

Uber-geeky but interesting video.

Drew_TNBD

Grunfeld said:

It's like hearing an Eskimo talk about snow.  Really really echoey snow.

Uber-geeky but interesting video.

hahahahahaaha! Yeah absolutely!

Fretwired said:

Cool video and thanks for sharing. Did you engage the high pass filter on the Timeline? It would have removed some of the low end mud in the second example ..

Ah y'know what, I didn't. But take my word for it, all it really does is clean up the low-end... it doesn't change the oscillation characteristics. It's still very 'fuzzy' rather than 'squeally'.

Grunfeld

Genuine observation on the geekiness aspect:  I think it's amazing how once you start getting into something you really begin to notice the differences in what at first glance seems basically the same.
I have spent hours over the last two nights printing out text in perhaps two dozen different serif and sans fonts which look more or less "the same" in order to decide which is my favourite and which will work best for the printed work I'm preparing.  Subtle differences matter once you're into something.

With the delays there were significant differences and, tbh, I started wondering about how the pedals I use would sound with this sort of test.  And the use of a guitar loop was great cos of the consistency.  It would be a bit of an academic exercise for me cos I don't get the chance to use these effects in a covers band except sometimes briefly at the end of a set.  My three workhorse echoes* are all tape, or tape-alike, emulators so I'd expect them to be able to self-oscillate well... and that's why I'm now curious because you've got a bunch of higher end gear there and the results were really interesting.


*Boss RE-20, Catalinbread Belle Epoch, Catalinbread Echorec

Jonathanthomas83

@Drew_TNBD ;I think I'd love your music, do you have any releases I can buy? Gigs I can go to?

Drew_TNBD

Jonathanthomas83 said:

@Drew_TNBD ;I think I'd love your music, do you have any releases I can buy? Gigs I can go to?

Yeah man, checkout www.bridgedisaster.co.uk - you can get the whole discography in digital for just over a tenner!

Gigwise, we've got one gig planned up Norf. But I can't talk about it right now!

Jonathanthomas83

Thanks fella!

Norf. Do Sowf and I'm there! ;-)

Great video. I think I prefer the Nemesis, but then, that stands to reason as it was the last delay I chose to use before I went 100% digital.

Gassage

Grunfeld said:

Genuine observation on the geekiness aspect:  I think it's amazing how once you start getting into something you really begin to notice the differences in what at first glance seems basically the same.
I have spent hours over the last two nights printing out text in perhaps two dozen different serif and sans fonts which look more or less "the same" in order to decide which is my favourite and which will work best for the printed work I'm preparing.  Subtle differences matter once you're into something.

With the delays there were significant differences and, tbh, I started wondering about how the pedals I use would sound with this sort of test.  And the use of a guitar loop was great cos of the consistency.  It would be a bit of an academic exercise for me cos I don't get the chance to use these effects in a covers band except sometimes briefly at the end of a set.  My three workhorse echoes* are all tape, or tape-alike, emulators so I'd expect them to be able to self-oscillate well... and that's why I'm now curious because you've got a bunch of higher end gear there and the results were really interesting.


*Boss RE-20, Catalinbread Belle Epoch, Catalinbread Echorec

Rule one of Fonts.

It'll boil down to a version of Helvetica.

Jonathanthomas83

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Great video. I think I prefer the Nemesis, but then, that stands to reason as it was the last delay I chose to use before I went 100% digital.

Ah, so I commented about half way through, I hated the oscillation on the Nemesis!  ha

Teetonetal

urgh, the time line reminds me of the Chase Bliss Tonal recall, there is a very unpleasant saturation that seems to be under the notes. Don't like at all. @4.11

Interesting that you could then more or less dial it out. Sounded much better at @4:53 but I could still hear it in the tail. Until the grit was off. I really hate that sound, it's not a pleasant saturation - I much preferred the dd500 at this point.

Beexter

I agree totally with your verdict @Drew_TNBD  - the Helix and FX8 sounded considerably better - just much more musical. I think the Helix edged it though, which coming from an AX8 user is praise indeed!
Nice job on the vid.

guitarfishbay

Yeah I think the Helix delay sounds great.

There's a new model of a Deluxe Memory Man due soon for Fractal, hopefully that'll be nice.

BintyTwanger77

Teetonetal said:

urgh, the time line reminds me of the Chase Bliss Tonal recall, there is a very unpleasant saturation that seems to be under the notes. Don't like at all. @4.11

Interesting that you could then more or less dial it out. Sounded much better at @4:53 but I could still hear it in the tail. Until the grit was off. I really hate that sound, it's not a pleasant saturation - I much preferred the dd500 at this point.

I like the saturation on the dBucket engine, totally a taste thing. Maybe I've stuck with Strymon pedals is because I've become so used to the layout and user interface, for the same reason that people continue to upgrade to the same model of smartphones, but I still love the sounds on it.

Jonathanthomas83

I could never get used to the Timeline sounds. I'm primarily a digital delay user and it was never crisp or defined enough for me. Nice pedals though.

@Drew_TNBD I'm loving your music mate, thank for the link. I hope more people buy your stuff. Really only listened to Exegesis, but that's because it takes me an age to digest music/albums etc. Will slowly move on to the rest of them in due course. Can see this becoming one of my go-to albums. Reminds me a bit of https://edencircus.bandcamp.com/album/marula which is another of my go-to's. Thanks again, great stuff! PS, when is the new one out? And when will you do a gig in my back garden?

Drew_TNBD

Jonathanthomas83 said:

I could never get used to the Timeline sounds. I'm primarily a digital delay user and it was never crisp or defined enough for me. Nice pedals though.

@Drew_TNBD I'm loving your music mate, thank for the link. I hope more people buy your stuff. Really only listened to Exegesis, but that's because it takes me an age to digest music/albums etc. Will slowly move on to the rest of them in due course. Can see this becoming one of my go-to albums. Reminds me a bit of https://edencircus.bandcamp.com/album/marula which is another of my go-to's. Thanks again, great stuff! PS, when is the new one out? And when will you do a gig in my back garden?

Thanks very much guv!

New album sometime next year!

Drew_TNBD

BintyTwanger77 said:

Teetonetal said:

urgh, the time line reminds me of the Chase Bliss Tonal recall, there is a very unpleasant saturation that seems to be under the notes. Don't like at all. @4.11

Interesting that you could then more or less dial it out. Sounded much better at @4:53 but I could still hear it in the tail. Until the grit was off. I really hate that sound, it's not a pleasant saturation - I much preferred the dd500 at this point.

I like the saturation on the dBucket engine, totally a taste thing. Maybe I've stuck with Strymon pedals is because I've become so used to the layout and user interface, for the same reason that people continue to upgrade to the same model of smartphones, but I still love the sounds on it.

Yeah certainly nothing 'bad' about the Strymon, I'm just not looking for that kind of response. I'm after a squeal rather than a thunder. I did email Strymon to send them my Helix clip and they suggested trying the digital delay on the Timeline instead, so I might do a follow up to this video.

Jonathanthomas83

@Drew_TNBD can you explain the compressor after the delay thing and how you'd approach the settings for that on the Fractal?

Drew_TNBD

Jonathanthomas83 said:

@Drew_TNBD can you explain the compressor after the delay thing and how you'd approach the settings for that on the Fractal?

Well basically, it seems to me that the FX8 delays don't have built in saturation or limiting circuits. This means the delay can exponentially increase in amplitude the longer you allow it to oscillate. Which means eventually it will clip the D/A of the unit itself, causing that awful distortion you heard in my video when I first used the FX8.

So to solve this, I put a compressor after the delay. This ensures that the level will never go above a certain amount. -30dB on the threshold is enough to allow this, and a longer release time makes sure it doesn't pump too much.

Without the compressor you're just going to clip the signal and it's going to sound cack.

guitarfishbay

Have you sent these things to Fractal yet?