Delay Comparisons (Nemesis, Timeline, DD500, FX8, Helix)

Drew_TNBD

guitarfishbay said:

Have you sent these things to Fractal yet?

I sent them the video this morning and a few additional comments.

guitarfishbay

Cool.  Seems like good timing too with the upcoming Memory Man model.

Jonathanthomas83

@Drew_TNBD ;Excellent, thank you mate. Appreciate the tip. I hadn't thought of doing that until you mentioned it, really neat idea.

Drew_TNBD

Jonathanthomas83 said:

@Drew_TNBD ;Excellent, thank you mate. Appreciate the tip. I hadn't thought of doing that until you mentioned it, really neat idea.

One thing I tried was assigning the compressor mix and delay master feedback to an expression pedal. So basically, compress my signal when it's oscillating... don't compress it when it isn't.

Be careful with that. I took my own head off because the compressor mix went back to 0% before the feedback started ramping down, and I destroyed my face with really loud delay echoes.

EricTheWeary

Drew_TNBD said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

@Drew_TNBD can you explain the compressor after the delay thing and how you'd approach the settings for that on the Fractal?

Well basically, it seems to me that the FX8 delays don't have built in saturation or limiting circuits. This means the delay can exponentially increase in amplitude the longer you allow it to oscillate. Which means eventually it will clip the D/A of the unit itself, causing that awful distortion you heard in my video when I first used the FX8.

So to solve this, I put a compressor after the delay. This ensures that the level will never go above a certain amount. -30dB on the threshold is enough to allow this, and a longer release time makes sure it doesn't pump too much.

Without the compressor you're just going to clip the signal and it's going to sound cack.

Not quite the same thing and an actual analogue delay but, somewhat randomly, I had an online chat with the chap who designed the DOD Rubberneck, which has a loop ( ie you can  effects that work on the delayed signal only) and he said he puts a compressor in there to manage the level ( otherwise it would just get louder and louder as it oscillates). 
Andy Summers used to use a compressor after delay in The Police, although not for the oscillation stuff but because he liked to make delays 'pop' but didn't like the extra level.

Drew_TNBD

Yep... dynamics processors after reverbs and delays is one of my favourite tricks.

Teetonetal

Drew_TNBD said:

Yep... dynamics processors after reverbs and delays is one of my favourite tricks.

And one I've never, ever thought about on a guitar board, despite doing it on studio recordings.... thanks for that!

Jonathanthomas83

How would it work with Reverb? What's the benefit?

Good idea with controlling compression with an exp. Potential to kill the ears, by the looks! :-)

guitarfishbay

I think there's a ducker mode in the delays and or reverbs in the Fractal, if I'm remembering correctly.  That could be quite cool too for some situations.

Drew_TNBD

Jonathanthomas83 said:

How would it work with Reverb? What's the benefit?

Good idea with controlling compression with an exp. Potential to kill the ears, by the looks! :-)

Say you've set your reverb to 30% wet... add a compressor after, and you'll be able to make your dry guitar stand out quite clearly... but then when you stop playing, you can make the reverb tail come up in volume. You can make your guitar playing 'pump' basically.

guitarfishbay

Drew_TNBD said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

How would it work with Reverb? What's the benefit?

Good idea with controlling compression with an exp. Potential to kill the ears, by the looks! :-)

Say you've set your reverb to 30% wet... add a compressor after, and you'll be able to make your dry guitar stand out quite clearly... but then when you stop playing, you can make the reverb tail come up in volume. You can make your guitar playing 'pump' basically.

A similar principle to the Beny Benassi synth sound on Satisfaction (there's a blast from the past)

Jonathanthomas83

Drew_TNBD said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

How would it work with Reverb? What's the benefit?

Good idea with controlling compression with an exp. Potential to kill the ears, by the looks! :-)

Say you've set your reverb to 30% wet... add a compressor after, and you'll be able to make your dry guitar stand out quite clearly... but then when you stop playing, you can make the reverb tail come up in volume. You can make your guitar playing 'pump' basically.

Nice, I've never thought of these things before. Good stuff indeed, Thank you for taking the time.

Drew_TNBD

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Drew_TNBD said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

How would it work with Reverb? What's the benefit?

Good idea with controlling compression with an exp. Potential to kill the ears, by the looks! :-)

Say you've set your reverb to 30% wet... add a compressor after, and you'll be able to make your dry guitar stand out quite clearly... but then when you stop playing, you can make the reverb tail come up in volume. You can make your guitar playing 'pump' basically.

Nice, I've never thought of these things before. Good stuff indeed, Thank you for taking the time.

This sort of anally retentive stuff is all I ever think about!!

Octafish

Interesting stuff. I'm new to the DD500, so still finding my way around. I wonder if the DD500s ducking feature can be used to prevent the self oscillation sounding too nasty?