First world problems

NelsonP

A 'friend of mine' has got himself into a situation and needs your help:

He has a 50 watt valve head and a 4 x12 cab because he used to play in a band. It's way too loud to play at home.

These days he doesn't play in a band anymore so he bought a decent modeller, which he uses for practicing at home using headphones or jamming with a mate using a his PA. His family are very happy about this as it means they don't have to listen to his inane noodling at home.

But he really misses being able to play through a valve amp and speaker. There is no substitute, right?

Since he's got most of the kit already, does he:

a) sell the 4 x 12, buy a 1 x 12 and use the modeller with the valve amp using 4 cable method. Because a 1 x 12 must be a bit quieter than a 4 x 12 and it definitely takes up less space

b) sell the valve amp and 4 x 12 and buy an FRFR instead (even though he is emotionally attached to both the amp and cab). Added advantage being that he can play backing tracks into this too.

c) do nothing, because that is easier, which leaves a lovely amp and cab gathering dust

ecc83

He could buy/build a Power Soak? Whilst it is true that a snorting 50 watter slammed down to mW to be chavvy friendly is NOT really  that nice. needs must when......?

Good to get a PS that has a line out and headphone jack. I am sure ICBM and others will advise.

Dave.

ICBM

c. Unless he needs the space or the money, if he's sentimentally attached to it then don't sell it. What amp is it? Quite a lot of them sound fine even turned right down - you get that big deep effortless sound that's hard to get from a smaller amp or cabinet, even at very low volume.

If it's something like a non-MV 50W Marshall, the volume jumps too quickly from off to loud and harsh, but this is a feature of the volume control circuit and can easily be modified (non-destructively) to make it much more home-volume-friendly.

For what it's worth when I lived in a small flat I owned a 200W Marshall Major, which sounded brilliant at whisper volume through a huge 2x15" cabinet. The only time I ever got a noise complaint was when playing my 5W Marshall Mercury, which sounded crap unless it was turned up loud! (Actually it sounded crap at any volume, but that's a slightly different problem…)

If the amp doesn't naturally distort at low volume and he wants that, just get a decent preamp-type pedal and run that in front. An attenuator probably won't drop the volume far enough without making it sound a bit 'strangled', unless it's already got a fairly decent master volume.

Also, if it's an old amp it's important to keep running it fairly regularly, at least every few months and preferably a bit more often - that will keep the filter caps as well preserved as you can and possibly avoid replacing them.

ecc83

" just get a decent preamp-type pedal and run that in front" Possibly one with a valve in it and emulated output?

Dave.

ICBM

ecc83 said:

" just get a decent preamp-type pedal and run that in front" Possibly one with a valve in it and emulated output?

Yes, the Mesa V-Twin is really great.












... and actually the Blackstar HT-Dual is pretty good too .

mynamesnotbob

Get a 2x12 and a power soak. Engineer times to get the family out the house, and turn it up and enjoy - headphones never really work

NelsonP

ICBM said:

c. Unless he needs the space or the money, if he's sentimentally attached to it then don't sell it. What amp is it? Quite a lot of them sound fine even turned right down - you get that big deep effortless sound that's hard to get from a smaller amp or cabinet, even at very low volume.

If it's something like a non-MV 50W Marshall, the volume jumps too quickly from off to loud and harsh, but this is a feature of the volume control circuit and can easily be modified (non-destructively) to make it much more home-volume-friendly.

For what it's worth when I lived in a small flat I owned a 200W Marshall Major, which sounded brilliant at whisper volume through a huge 2x15" cabinet. The only time I ever got a noise complaint was when playing my 5W Marshall Mercury, which sounded crap unless it was turned up loud! (Actually it sounded crap at any volume, but that's a slightly different problem…)

If the amp doesn't naturally distort at low volume and he wants that, just get a decent preamp-type pedal and run that in front. An attenuator probably won't drop the volume far enough without making it sound a bit 'strangled', unless it's already got a fairly decent master volume.

Also, if it's an old amp it's important to keep running it fairly regularly, at least every few months and preferably a bit more often - that will keep the filter caps as well preserved as you can and possibly avoid replacing them.

The amp is a Mesa .50 caliber, with a matched 8 ohm Marshall cab. It does have a MV, but the gradient on it is sharp - i.e. you get nothing on it at all between 0 and 1, then it kicks in and its already a little too loud for home use.

It has two channels - rhythm (clean) and lead (dirty) and a gain control so you can set it up to be relatively quiet.

To quote the manual "If you run the Volume at 10 and the master below 1 (in the Lead mode) Grandma can nap in the next room while you annihilate Manhattan with monstrous metal performance. You'll still get the sound and feel of big amps cranked way up!"

Grandma must be deaf ;-)

ICBM

NelsonP said:

The amp is a Mesa .50 caliber

Aha . MV and an FX loop - that makes things easier. In that case the solution is either an attenuator - it doesn't even need to be an expensive or high power-rated one, if it's just going to be used for taking down an already low volume still further - or a 'volume box' or an EQ pedal with an overall level control (eg a Boss GE-7) in the effects loop - even if it's the version with a built-in graphic EQ. Or you can even use both.

Personally I would go for an EQ pedal first, that will allow you to set up a 'loudness contour' as well as dropping the level, which will help offset the usually more boxy low-volume sound. If money is tight then a volume box will work nearly as well and is only about £25.

NelsonP

Thanks @ICBM.

I'm wondering. Could this be achieved using the modeller in 4CM, but just adjusting the output level on the modeller?

I've never really used the 4CM and thinking about it makes my head hurt!

This is from the manual of the modeller in question (an Atomic Amplifire)

GLOBAL SETTINGS:

SEND LEVEL Sets the output level of the SEND jack. This is a relative level in dB for a full scale digital output.
RETURN LEVEL: Sets the input level of the RETURN jacks. This is a relative level in dB for a full scale digital input.
MAIN LEVEL: Sets the output level of the MAIN output jacks. This is a relative level in dB for a full scale digital output.
AUX LEVEL: Sets the output level of the AUX output jacks. This is a relative level in dB for a full scale digital output.

ICBM

Yes, it should be - I missed the bit about 4CM in your original post .

It sounds like either the return level or the main level - or both - will do what he wants.

Just be careful not to accidentally switch it to bypass or your friend will suddenly go back to the future!

http://www.cinema52.com/2013/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/20131017-185320.jpg

NelsonP

Hilarious. I remember that bit.

Thanks once again for your sage advice!

clarkefan

Volume pot in a box and everyone's a winner

earwighoney

NelsonP said:

A 'friend of mine' has got himself into a situation and needs your help:

He has a 50 watt valve head and a 4 x12 cab because he used to play in a band. It's way too loud to play at home.

These days he doesn't play in a band anymore so he bought a decent modeller, which he uses for practicing at home using headphones or jamming with a mate using a his PA. His family are very happy about this as it means they don't have to listen to his inane noodling at home.

But he really misses being able to play through a valve amp and speaker. There is no substitute, right?

Since he's got most of the kit already, does he:

a) sell the 4 x 12, buy a 1 x 12 and use the modeller with the valve amp using 4 cable method. Because a 1 x 12 must be a bit quieter than a 4 x 12 and it definitely takes up less space

b) sell the valve amp and 4 x 12 and buy an FRFR instead (even though he is emotionally attached to both the amp and cab). Added advantage being that he can play backing tracks into this too.

c) do nothing, because that is easier, which leaves a lovely amp and cab gathering dust

d) Buy some Yum Yums from Greggs or Sainsburys. 

It might not solve the amp problem but your mate will have some Yum Yums, which is never a bad thing. 

HAL9000

NelsonP said:

I've never really used the 4CM and thinking about it makes my head hurt...

I assume you mean that 'your friend' never used it and that it makes 'your friend's' head hurt ;-)

Maynehead

Your friend would be a fool to sell the Boogie. Downsizing to a 1x12 would be a good idea through to make it at least feel more manageable, and would probably please your friend's missus.

NelsonP

HAL9000 said:ki

NelsonP said:

I've never really used the 4CM and thinking about it makes my head hurt...

I assume you mean that 'your friend' never used it and that it makes 'your friend's' head hurt ;-)

Ahem. Yeah. Er i meant 'my friend's' head

#rumbled