The advantages of a nitro finish.

ICBM

If you want to really spin your head, it's worth knowing that all modern and many vintage Fenders which are 'finished' in nitro also have a polyester undercoat.




Gibson also use a lot more plasticiser in their modern nitro than they did in the old days, resulting in finishes which check less, feel different and are more prone to stand marking…


Also, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "POLY".

There is polyester, and there is polyurethane. They are different finishes and they react differently to damage etc. There is also acrylic. Or should that be "acry"?

BloodEagle

I prefer Nitro finishes to be honjest just because they feel nicer to the touch and smell lovely, anything else is irrelevant

Gassage

@icbm

In the opening line, you mean 'Fullerplast?' Do you happen to know the years this was used? I'm sure it's under the nitro of my 61.

guitars4you

The chemical content of nitro used today is different to that used in the 50's/60's - partly as certain ingredients are not safe and illegal to use - Partly as nitro was largely used in the car industry so as soon as they used 'plasticizes' so as the finish would bend and not split on bumpers/wing mirrors etc 

It is not just about the nitro finish itself as the 'filler' and base coat need to be taken into account

It is generally accepted by many luthiers that a thinner finish is preferred as a thick finish will further dampen the guitars natural vibrant properties - If in doubt about this then strip your guitar down to bare wood and listen to the voice of the raw finish - Not to long ago I acquired a mid 60's SG Special that had a poor home  refin with Dulux Gloss - looked poor as hell - Stripped it down and instantly the guitar had a more natural vibrant voice

I think there is a strong debate as to modern finishes not sounding inferior to nitro and I won't go in to this, but the boutique builders who favour a modern finish still prefer a thin finish so as not to dampen the natural vibrant qualities of the wood - I've heard on more than one occasion from various luthiers and big companies that the guitar sounds better before any finish is applied, as such keep your finish thin - A similar scenario adapted by violin luthiers and acoustic guitar builders

I've also seen and heard on many occasions of players wishing to delve into their own refin and amazed how much the debris weighs after stripping down a modern finished production guitar

proggy

Gassage said:

proggy said:

Does anyone know how much it would cost for a nitro refin on a Tele?

Thinking of getting one of mine done.

Depends who does it. c. 250-350. The very best I've encountered are Jaydee in Brum. Superb.

Thanks Gassage, I'll look into it.

ICBM

Gassage said:

In the opening line, you mean 'Fullerplast?' Do you happen to know the years this was used? I'm sure it's under the nitro of my 61.

I think it started in '63, but there were other undercoats before that - I'm not sure of the material.

It's also worth noting that quite a few of the custom colours (eg Lake Placid Blue) were actually acrylic, not nitro.

Three-ColourSunburst

So, it seems that many do prefer the look and feel, and find nitro finishes are not as fragile as often reported. (Although I do see a lot of reports of issues. For example I looked at one of the 'That pedal show' videos the other day, and they guy with the red tele said the finish on his was still soft and tacky in places 10 years after he bought it!)

Is a preference for nitro entirely driven by users? Given its potential fragility and the unpredictable way it can age - sometimes looking 'charming' and other times just flaking off - could dealers (especially of older instruments) also be hyping the perceived value of a nitro finish? After all, it seems relatively few nitro finished guitars will reach old age without finish problems or a refin, making the charmingly aged survivors even rarer and more desirable, a bit like dealers are able to charge a huge premium for toys that still have their boxes with them.

Jalapeno

Don't know how long Poly takes to cure and harden but had to out a top layer of Nitro clear on my PRS SE refinish as the Poly was just too damn soft.

Gassage

guitars4you said:

It is generally accepted by many luthiers that a thinner finish is preferred as a thick finish will further dampen the guitars natural vibrant properties - If in doubt about this then strip your guitar down to bare wood and listen to the voice of the raw finish - Not to long ago I acquired a mid 60's SG Special that had a poor home  refin with Dulux Gloss - looked poor as hell - Stripped it down and instantly the guitar had a more natural vibrant voice

Mark,

Go and think about what you've done please.

Three-ColourSunburst

Gassage said:

guitars4you said:

It is generally accepted by many luthiers that a thinner finish is preferred as a thick finish will further dampen the guitars natural vibrant properties - If in doubt about this then strip your guitar down to bare wood and listen to the voice of the raw finish - Not to long ago I acquired a mid 60's SG Special that had a poor home  refin with Dulux Gloss - looked poor as hell - Stripped it down and instantly the guitar had a more natural vibrant voice

Mark,

Go and think about what you've done please.

No comment!

Gassage

One serious point- it's far more tactile on a neck than poly.

GoldenEraGuitars

Hmmmm. I don't think I should get involved here (even though I'm currently spraying over 40 bodies and a dozen necks in nitro as well as 3 refinishes). But I will happily agree with @ICBM as to what fender call "nitro". I just stripped this Custom Shop Strat.

Apparently that's Dakota Red "nitro". Looks more like polyurethane to me (must be a lot of plasticiser in it!)

 https://i.imgur.com/pz2Itqp.jpg

Three-ColourSunburst

Gassage said:

One serious point- it's far more tactile on a neck than poly.

Is this just with mahogany necks? The maple necks on my Ibanez Prestige RG and Talman seem to have hardly any finish at all on the back of the neck, just being smooth and slightly satiny.

crunchman

Three-ColourSunburst said:

MartinB said:

 
You're waiting for someone to comment about tone, aren't you?  

After that other thread that's the last thing I want! I doubt anyone really takes the idea that finish affects tone seriously in any case!

Looks like you are trolling again.

A lot of well respected people in the guitar building industry do think finish affects tone - although from the people I've talked to, and the stuff I've read, it's the thickness of it that is important, not what it is made from.

As @guitars4you said, it's easy enough to check if you have the time and inclination.  Just get a guitar, play it, remove the finish, and then play it again and see if it sounds different.

Whether or not it does affect tone, nitro definitely ages better than most poly finishes.  I've seen poly finished Strats with great big horrible cracks.  The crazing you get with nitro looks a lot better.  I had an early 90's PRS with a poly finish, and where that got dinged it didn't look good either.

Does anyone know what the newer PRS V12 finish looks like a few years in when it has got some dings?

Three-ColourSunburst

lonestar said:

Hmmmm. I don't think I should get involved here (even though I'm currently spraying over 40 bodies and a dozen necks in nitro as well as 3 refinishes). But I will happily agree with @ICBM as to what fender call "nitro". I just stripped this Custom Shop Strat.

Apparently that's Dakota Red "nitro". Looks more like polyurethane to me (must be a lot of plasticiser in it!)

 https://i.imgur.com/pz2Itqp.jpg

By heck. That looks like the remains of an old plastic sofa!

Gassage

Three-ColourSunburst said:

Gassage said:

One serious point- it's far more tactile on a neck than poly.

Is this just with mahogany necks? The maple necks on my Ibanez Prestige RG and Talman seem to have hardly any finish at all on the back of the neck, just being smooth and slightly satiny.

No.

Pre CBS strats.

guitars4you

Three-ColourSunburst said:

Gassage said:

One serious point- it's far more tactile on a neck than poly.

Is this just with mahogany necks? The maple necks on my Ibanez Prestige RG and Talman seem to have hardly any finish at all on the back of the neck, just being smooth and slightly satiny.

many modern built guitars now use a gunstock oil/wax blend and a hand rubbed finish to acquire that smooth played in vibe - This approach is now adopted by many and includes certain Ibanez models - EVH helped spread the gospel for this trend to capture the vibe of a played in old 'un - I think you find it more on maple necks but I have seen similar on mahogany as well

Gassage

guitars4you said:

Three-ColourSunburst said:

Gassage said:

One serious point- it's far more tactile on a neck than poly.

Is this just with mahogany necks? The maple necks on my Ibanez Prestige RG and Talman seem to have hardly any finish at all on the back of the neck, just being smooth and slightly satiny.

many modern built guitars now use a gunstock oil/wax blend and a hand rubbed finish to acquire that smooth played in vibe - This approach is now adopted by many and includes certain Ibanez models - EVH helped spread the gospel for this trend to capture the vibe of a played in old 'un - I think you find it more on maple necks but I have seen similar on mahogany as well

Mark

Any idea where one might get this? I have one guitar that's got no laquer whatsoever on the neck.

JezWynd

underdog said:

In all seriousness, it's the feel, it doesn't feel like a nice piece of wood encased in a layer of plastic.

This.

GoldenEraGuitars

Three-ColourSunburst said:

lonestar said:

Hmmmm. I don't think I should get involved here (even though I'm currently spraying over 40 bodies and a dozen necks in nitro as well as 3 refinishes). But I will happily agree with @ICBM as to what fender call "nitro". I just stripped this Custom Shop Strat.

Apparently that's Dakota Red "nitro". Looks more like polyurethane to me (must be a lot of plasticiser in it!)

 https://i.imgur.com/pz2Itqp.jpg

By heck. That looks like the remains of an old plastic sofa!

It feels like vinyl tbh. It certainly didn't react like a solvent when I stripped it.

There are no set advantages using nitro over polyurethane, as such. This is based on what YOU prefer. If you prefer a thick and protective surface then polyurethane is your answer. If you want a finish that is thinner than a strand of human hair, expands, contracts and wears with you then nitro is perfect.