Recording Guitar - mixing

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VaiaiVaiai Frets: 530
edited September 2017 in Studio & Recording
Just looking for some quick tips on how I make my guitar sound like part of a track and not like it's plonked on top of the backing (in this case a backing track as used in Solo of the Month on here ) 

I am thinking I should have recorded dry and added reverb etc rather than use it in the Helix. But apart from that - how do you get it all to blend?



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  • VaiaiVaiai Frets: 530
    Anyone?
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  • stratman3142stratman3142 Frets: 2176
    edited September 2017
    I'm not sure without listening to it, and the entries haven't been posted yet.

    I think there's always going to be a bit of an issue when playing to a pre-existing backing track. I think my solo entries often sound a bit like they're plonked on top of the backing.

    When creating my own complete recordings, I often use a reverb bus, so there's at least one common reverb across all the tracks. That way things sound like they're in the same acoustic space. Also the mastering effects are applied on the master track across all the instruments.

    That's not so easy when playing over a pre-existing backing track. I suppose it might be possible to try to use a similar reverb (for example) to that of the backing track, but that's a bit of guesswork. I don't usually fuss that much on my Sotm entries.

    Another (obvious) trick is not to make the solo too loud above the backing.
    It's not a competition.
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  • A bit of stereo verb and bus compression on the whole track.
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  • VaiaiVaiai Frets: 530
    I did have my track in the post but removed it in case people thought I was just trying to get views or something lol

    I suppose it makes sense that the backing track is harder to mix in with as it's all been done together as it were and you are bringing something sonically different.

    I'm not that bothered for the SOTM entry but it was just a general musing or request for advice on how you DO get it to sit right.

    Thanks for the response @stratman3142 ;


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  • How are you recording it via PC, tape etc? 
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    edited September 2017
    It is impossible to give you more than very general advice without hearing the tracks but try this.

    Use some high pass and low pass filters to get rid of the ultra highs and lows- this can help things fit better.
    I often high pass at 60-80hz for crunchy guitars and 100-120hz for clean guitars.
    I tend not to compress individual guitars very much, because distorted guitars are already compressed and clean guitars need to bounce.
    I do a fair bit of subtractive EQ but the settings depend on the sound of the guitar, the track, the vocal and everything else.

    One thing I do pretty much all the time is to use a side chain compressor on the guitars that is keyed to the snare (and sometimes a kick) so that the guitars dip slightly when the snare hits.
    You have to be careful to not make it obvious- the way to do this is to set it up so that it is very obvious and then back off the attack and threshold setting until you cannot hear it working in isolation.
    Then add a bit more back in and observe.

    When eqing guitars the best way is to boost a frequency by the maximum possible with a high Q value and then sweep up the frequency range to find the nasty frequencies. Then take the boost down to a cut, usually 1-2db of a nasty frequency is all that is required and I generally widen the Q- but again it depends on the track.

    I also tend not to use much reverb on guitars either- but if you are using synthetic reverb on drums (it is perfectly valid to not do this) then feeding a bit of all the instruments into the drum verb helps create a sense of being 'in the room'.

    I do compress a lot on busses-- check out a technique called 'Brauerizing'. I do this a lot.

    I also use a technique from Andrew Scheps called back bussing, where you put everything that isn't the drums on a bus and parallel compress it.
    If you don't have a compressor with a mix control then use post fader sends in your mixer to send everything that isn't drums to a bus, compress that bus and then bring that bus up into the mix bus.

    Finally try two master bus compressors with different settings.
    Start with one compressing about 2db with a fairly quick attack and slow release, feed this into another compressor compressing about 2db with a slower attack and a faster release.

    One last word on compression- it is a dark art and generally you don't want to hear the compressor more than the part.
    The difference between it doing the job that it is meant to do and overdoing it can be very fine indeed.
    It takes years to properly learn it.
    if you get into to trouble with compression then try backing off the threshold or using the same settings as a parallel compressor, so you feed back in some of the original signal.

    If you want to hear an album I engineered & produced with guitars then have a listen to this: 
    https://open.spotify.com/album/1HxJSKm7KJBv8zpE6gdFUz
    All of the tracks used these techniques to varying degrees.
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    edited September 2017
    Oh and if you need to remove ambience from a track then Izotope have a plugin called 'DeReverb' that is excellent, like all their other products.
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  • listened to your track last night in your other thread...sounded ok to me..made me wonder what you was on about?

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  • stratman3142stratman3142 Frets: 2176
    edited September 2017
    siraxeman said:

    listened to your track last night in your other thread...sounded ok to me..made me wonder what you was on about?

    That gives me another thought. It might sound/feel like it's plonked on top just after you record it, because it's acutely in your mind at that point. I like to leave things and come back to them at least a day after. Sometimes it's OK and sometimes I need to make a few tweaks, but at least I can be more objective if I put some space between recording and final mixing.

    Although that doesn't always work. I spotted a couple of pick chirps on my entry to this month's Sotm after I submitted it, but I'm not going to dwell on it

    It's not a competition.
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  • VaiaiVaiai Frets: 530
    How are you recording it via PC, tape etc? 
    Sorry - original post had that info :) It was Helix into DAW (Reaper) and using the SOTM backing track.

    @octatonic - great info thanks! Not really going in depth as to dip during snare hits but it's a really good overview into some techniques - thanks :)

    @stratman3142 - You are right - I did come back to if and it now feels really slow and too much space - i.e fragmented - if it was my own piece I'd speed the tempo up a bit - but the whole point is it's a wee challenge I suppose.

    I get the feeling it's a bit like my old Photoshop days - you can use drop shadow well if you know what you are doing, but like compression and verb - you can horribly overuse it!
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  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33725
    Vaiai said:
    How are you recording it via PC, tape etc? 
    Sorry - original post had that info :) It was Helix into DAW (Reaper) and using the SOTM backing track.

    @octatonic - great info thanks! Not really going in depth as to dip during snare hits but it's a really good overview into some techniques - thanks :)

    @stratman3142 - You are right - I did come back to if and it now feels really slow and too much space - i.e fragmented - if it was my own piece I'd speed the tempo up a bit - but the whole point is it's a wee challenge I suppose.

    I get the feeling it's a bit like my old Photoshop days - you can use drop shadow well if you know what you are doing, but like compression and verb - you can horribly overuse it!
    The side chain thing is actually really important.
    The three most important elements in any mix are the lead vocal, the kick and the snare. (pausing for someone to disagree with me here).

    If you don't have a lead vocal then the guitar solo.
    But you still want the guitars to dip sightly to make way for the snare because when the snare hits you need to hear it- you actually temporarily stop listening to the vocal for a few milliseconds.

    When I teach engineering I use this track to illustrate the point:



    It is a good track because the snare is absolutely massive- you can actually hear other things ducking it if you know what to listen for.
    My favourite compressor to duck the snare is the Waves SSL G Bus Comp.
    It is very snappy.
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  • That doesn't have to be done using side-chaining though, and I'm sure it wasn't in the case of the Whitesnake track. All they've done there is mix the drums very loud and then send the whole mix through a compressor with a fast attack time, surely?
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