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My AX8 vs Helix LT Journey

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peteripeteri Frets: 1283

All

Thought others might find this interesting.

My background, I'm a pedal guy - I have assembled a very much loved (And very large) pedal collection and G2 based board. Love it - all the dream pedals for me and sounded great.

But it was a bit heavy for quick nip out jams, so I bought a smaller board - but then thought (over the summer) I'd try a Helix LT.

So small board sold, Helix LT ordered.

At first I didn't like the Helix at it, sounded flat and compressed to me - nearly returned it and gave it one more go. And over the course of a week fell in love with it, worked out how to make it work etc.

Fast forward to now and a change of circumstances (we're moving to a more central London flat, so space and noise is tighter) - it's pretty clear the G2 board has to go. I love it, but the Helix or similar makes more sense both space, noise and weight wise.

Most pedals are now sold (G2 still available! :) )and I'm committing.

I'm running the Helix as a headphone device, but more often in front of an amp - can't bring myself to abandon a little amp I love dearly - I have the Carr Skylark which is just a great little thing.


So since I'm into modelling, I decided to go all in - my current set up is:

King of Tone -> MXR Phase 95 (don't like the Helix Phaser so much) -> Helix LT.

In the Helix loop I have a Strymon Flint for reverb and trem.

And I'm happy with the sound.

But I decided to order an AX8 to compare, I want a floor unit so the rack units are out - this thread will run through my decision process.

(Like the Clarky one but without the professionalism).

Day 1

AX8 came yesterday, and unpacked - loved the free box of chocolates in the box, I'm easily bought!

Only had an hour or so after work with the AX8. First impressions:

1. Editing on the AX8 is nowhere near as nice as on the Helix, with the Helix, I've never needed the editor. With the AX8 without the AX-Edit it would be a slog, I've programmed a Commodore C64 once, I don't want to do it again!

2. Helix snapshots vs AX8 scenes, clearly there's more power in the Helix - scene modifiers work, but only having two is a bit limiting, does work though (just!)

3. Again - having 1 amp block (so two amps, one at once) vs 4 in the Helix is a limitation, can work around it - but makes it a little harder

So that's the obvious stuff, but sounds?

Find the Helix delay, slightly, slightly better - just slightly more organic - AX is fine though.

AX8 reverb is night and day better, don't need the Flint anymore

Same with the trem, in 2 minutes I had the sound of the flint

AX8 Phaser works for me better, just more chewy - so don't need the MXR in front

AX8 Chorus, is more the sort of sound I like - again Helix can do it, but the AX sound out of the box is my chorus idea.

Amp sounds - bit of a pain having to use full amps in the AX (I've turned off power amp and cabinet simulation in the global settings). The range of amplifiers is both amazing and daunting on the AX. But really like the sounds so far, the tone controls seem to match more the real thing based on my experience.

And the proof of the pudding in an hour I'd build a base pedalboard which matched my Helix one, both sound superb - but somehow I prefer the AX, sound is so close it's hard to tell - but something about the feeling under the pick/fingers feels more enjoyable in the AX8.

This is impressive because it's taken me weeks to get the Helix right, now of course I've learnt some transferable skills along the way, but the range of amps helps - rather than tweaking, I viewed the amps as 'presets' and got the closer sound because of that.

Very aware this could be new toy syndrome/the chocolate bribe - so will keep comparing both.

Quick play on the looper, I prefer the looper on the AX8 - just found it easier, but still don't like (on either unit) that balancing the volume means an extra expression pedal (of course it does!) so will stick with an external looper for now.

More to come!


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Comments

  • guitarfishbayguitarfishbay Frets: 7953
    edited September 2017
    Interesting thread, will be following

    I think either of these units could be the right choice for someone.

    I don't know if you're aware, but there's a firmware update due soon which has updated delays, specifically the Memory Man and Bucket Bridge Delay types.
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  • Oh and when I got my Axe FX my chocolates had melted as it was during one of the rare British heat waves a couple of years ago.  I was quite sad as they looked alright.
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  • peteripeteri Frets: 1283

    Ohh - thanks I look forward to that update.

    Apparently the chocolates are a mid level brand - so definitely worth it and pleased my (German) girlfriend no-end!

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  • @FarleyUK seems to have gelled with his straight away. Be interesting to hear how you both get on given you're both from a Helix background.
    Read my guitar/gear blog at medium.com/redchairriffs

    View my feedback at www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/1201922
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  • would be interested in how you find the AX8 in a band situation.  I had the FX8 for a period of months, loved it in the house, but live I wasn't happy with it at all. Was always tweaking on the go.  
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  • thomasw88 said:
    would be interested in how you find the AX8 in a band situation.  I had the FX8 for a period of months, loved it in the house, but live I wasn't happy with it at all. Was always tweaking on the go.  
    Did you go back to pedals or on to a different digital unit?
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  • back to pedals -  cae wah, strymon sunset, strymon mobius, boss dd500, digitich polara, bbe sonic stomp and tu3..  happiest i've ever been
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  • Fair enough.  My 'real' pedalboard is super simple - Decimator, Tu3, SD1, DVP1, DD20.  I didn't have any issues getting the sounds I wanted from my Axe FX but I can see how separates are a better choice for some people
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  • DavusPGDavusPG Frets: 446
    edited September 2017
    Happy AX8 user here, although there's been a learning curve and I've yet to gig it, but feeling pretty confident about that when it arises. Key thing for me has been to stick with the basic controls, find one or 2 IRs and treat it as I would a real rig.

    Never tried a Helix but can see the onboard interface is night and day with the AX8....without AXEdit I'd be royally screwed. Addressing that surely has to be a priority for Fractal going forward, but we'll see I guess.

    Will be keen to hear your updates.


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  • i've been using the FX8 for almost 2 years now and the thought of going back to a pedalboard and all that goes with it is daunting to say the least.
    Like any multi-FX unit when you've had it for a period of time and got into your stride with it you learn how to get the most out of it quickly, even using the editor on the unit itself which is very dated now.

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  • thomasw88 said:
    back to pedals -  cae wah, strymon sunset, strymon mobius, boss dd500, digitich polara, bbe sonic stomp and tu3..  happiest i've ever been
    Most of which are digital :)
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  • thomasw88 said:
    back to pedals -  cae wah, strymon sunset, strymon mobius, boss dd500, digitich polara, bbe sonic stomp and tu3..  happiest i've ever been
    Most of which are digital :)
    I don't care if it's analog, digital or made from aSwedish love nuns pubes as long as it sounds good and works at home and live!
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  • FreebirdFreebird Frets: 5821
    I love these threads, as I am also on a journey   ;)

    Currently I am using an FX8 into a Kemper, with some additional VST FX (Soundtoys, Valhalla, etc) via the computer. My thinking behind all of this is trying to get the best digital FX and amp sounds, wherever they may reside.

    Having three different sources of FX is very versatile, and I am also testing out the demo version of Helix Native.
    If we are not ashamed to think it, we should not be ashamed to say it.
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  • @Freebird did you sort that Exp thing after? Sorry mate, no idea about kemper stuff.
    Read my guitar/gear blog at medium.com/redchairriffs

    View my feedback at www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/1201922
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  • FreebirdFreebird Frets: 5821
    edited September 2017
    @Freebird did you sort that Exp thing after? Sorry mate, no idea about kemper stuff.
    Still sorting out my cables before I move onto the pedals, but I have done quite a bit of reading regarding the various options, so it's all coming along slowly but surely 
    If we are not ashamed to think it, we should not be ashamed to say it.
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  • Indeed it is mate! Glad to hear you're enjoying it all @Freebird. be really interested to hear clips of your FX8 and Kemper combination!
    Read my guitar/gear blog at medium.com/redchairriffs

    View my feedback at www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/1201922
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  • peteripeteri Frets: 1283

    Day 2: (will be busy over the weekend so tried to have a good session)

    Still playing with a base pedal board, this is going into my Carr amp, with a King of Tone infront of the AX8.

    4 scenes along the bottom: Clean, AC/DC like crunch, Rock, Solo sound

    Then along the top:

    Phaser, Chorus, Trem, Delay (which is pre-engaged for the last two scenes).


    Originally I had the clean sound provided by the Tweed Twin and a Friedman amp for the last three, this seemed unbalanced.

    So I changed it so the clean sound had just an optical compressor to give a little squish.

    Then AC/DC and Rock come from one amp and the solo from another.

    The compressor works great in that way, really like it - little bit of 'warmth' and squish to the amp - and it's not overdriving (duh!) like the Twin when I use higher output pickups. Happy.

    Played with the Jubilee, and liked it a lot (had one back in the 80s) - but then tried the JCM (#34) and liked the bottom end much more. Struggled to quite nail the AC/DC so automated the gain to be right down and then put a drive in front. Settled on the BB, which did the job apart from the low end.

    Eventually realised that there's an aggressive low cut on the overdrive (why???), pulled that down and happy.

    With the rock sound, struggled some more with the delay - I'd really like the repeats to me more 'part' of the sound. In the end got something which I really like - used the 2290 and then got it to duck quite heavily, seemed to do the trick.

    Originally tried boosting the JCM for the lead sound - but struggled, I think I was asking too much of the gain staging and there was something weird on the occasional notes. Remembering I had a spare amp now, I added a 6505 amp (used to have one it's a cracking amp), and the controls as set were perfect - really liked it.

    Finally added a wah, find setting the auto engage with the pedal movement a great idea - but somehow it's a little sensitive with my pedal. Will need to tweak that some more.


    After about 2 hours of fiddling, I was really happy with the sounds - certainly very usable. I compared to the sounds from the Helix - and again there's a three dimensional sound and pick attack to the AX8 which I really like, a part of that could absolutely be from the reverb, which is just much better. But I've also found the amps easier to dial in, not because of 'better' modelling per-se, but more because the tone controls just seem to react more like I'd expect on the real amp.

    Cheap little headphone amp comes today, to try over phones - that's the next step. Along with making another more 'blues' and more 'rock' preset (so that's two) using more scenes than a row of modifiers. I like that on the AX8 I'm not locked in like I am on the Helix with how the pedals are used (i.e. each patch can have a different combination)

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  • The 6505 models are great. I like the bright rhythm channel a lot.
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  • peteripeteri Frets: 1283
    Managed to get home early today and had a quick go with headphones.

    Initially when I got the AX8 manual, I was disappointed that there were no pre-amps and I had to turn off the cab/power amp as a global setting.

    But actually it's a massive bonus - on the Helix, I've got two set-ups - one for headphones/PA and one for in front of an amp. By adding a cab into what I've already programmed the headphones sounded great - and then I just turn the global setting off/on depending on how I'm using it.

    Still slightly battling the reverb and delay on the AX. The reverb is definitely more '3d' but haven't quite got it dialled in so I can hear it but not hear it. The delay is working, but kind of feel it could be more 'part of the sound'. I'll get there

    So still winning, the headphones sound was really good - which bodes well for a PA.

    Oh - and one thing I like more on the Ax8 - the tuner, like many people I don't find the Helix fast enough. I can make it work by repeatedly picking the note, but I don't need to do it on the AX.
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  • The Axe FX tuner is really good I think.  I've never felt the need to use an external tuner - so if it's the same one (with the spinning wheel for fine tuning) it'll be fine
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