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My AX8 vs Helix LT Journey

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  • guitarfishbayguitarfishbay Frets: 7953
    edited September 2017
    With reverb just play with the filters. It might be too full range at default settings for your tastes, removing additional low end might help a bit 
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  • BintyTwanger77BintyTwanger77 Frets: 2208
    edited September 2017
    thomasw88 said:
    back to pedals -  cae wah, strymon sunset, strymon mobius, boss dd500, digitich polara, bbe sonic stomp and tu3..  happiest i've ever been
    I've tried an FX8 and a Helix LT, and I'm still very much in the pedals camp. Three big Strymons, Particle, CB Brothers, Jam Rattler and Fairfield comp... couldn't be happier.
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  • Jonathanthomas83Jonathanthomas83 Frets: 3466
    edited September 2017
    Yep, it's whatever works for you at the end of the day. I knew you wouldn't like the Helix @BintyTwanger77 , well, not as much as your analog rig anyway. Are you still gonna use it for silent practice or ar you gonna get an iconoclast? You'd still need a clean preamp of some kind though, surely?

    For every person who is "happy as can be" with their rig, you have another whose had their rig and ditched it. Another man's shit and all that :-) (and that goes for digital > analog and vice versa)
    Read my guitar/gear blog at medium.com/redchairriffs

    View my feedback at www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/1201922
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  • Yep, it's whatever works for you at the end of the day. I knew you wouldn't like the Helix @BintyTwanger77 , well, not as much as your analog rig anyway. Are you still gonna use it for silent practice or ar you gonna get an iconoclast? You'd still need a clean preamp of some kind though, surely?

    For every person who is "happy as can be" with their rig, you have another whose had their rig and ditched it. Another man's shit and all that :-) (and that goes for digital > analog and vice versa)
    Well the Helix has gone back for a refund, so that answers the first part. While I was there, I noticed they had a Roland JC22 in stock, and it sounds really good (relatively speaking) with headphones AND it can be used as an acoustic amp (I'd just need something to prevent the usual resonance feedback at higher volumes).
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  • @BintyTwanger77 ha, I knew it would. What's your verdict then? Why didn't it work out?
    Read my guitar/gear blog at medium.com/redchairriffs

    View my feedback at www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/1201922
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  • Jonathanthomas83Jonathanthomas83 Frets: 3466
    edited September 2017
    Going to get stoned for this, but...

    I got forced to use a tube amp to try a couple of guitars out today and I honestly hated the experience. So much so that it put me off the guitars I went to try. I used to love tube amps, but not anymore. It's odd because it was a mini JCM800 style Marshall, or something like that, it sounded exactly like the Fractal model I'm used to using (yes, I compare tube amps to Fractal now, this is my life), but I hated it because I couldn't tweak my usual modifiers like 'cut', saturation, speaker comp and low cut in the cab block! Genuinely.
    Read my guitar/gear blog at medium.com/redchairriffs

    View my feedback at www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/1201922
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  • BeexterBeexter Frets: 597
    Going to get stoned for this, but...

    I got forced to use a tube amp to try a couple of guitars out today and I honestly hated the experience. So much so that it put me off the guitars I went to try. I used to love tube amps, but not anymore. It's odd because it was a mini JCM800 style Marshall, or something like that, it sounded exactly like the Fractal model I'm used to using (yes, I compare tube amps to Fractal now, this is my life), but I hated it because I couldn't tweak my usual modifiers like 'cut', saturation, speaker comp and low cut in the cab block! Genuinely.
    I getcha @Jonathanthomas83 - i find the more time play with a modeller, the more restrictive I find a traditional amp/ pedals rig. If I get tired of a particular amp sound, the AX8 gives me a whole host of alternatives to play with at the twist of a dial.
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  • @BintyTwanger77 ha, I knew it would. What's your verdict then? Why didn't it work out?
    It's not because of the quality of the sounds by any means (I'm not anti-modeller) and it's certainly not because of the workflow which is so easy and flexible. It's just too much for what I need, considering I really like my existing board and now I have the world of midi to dive into having acquired an MC6 from @Wazmeister. I am really happy with how the Roland JC22 amp sounds with headphones, and if I got some kind of anti-feedback pedal it sounds great as an acoustic amp as well.
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  • peteripeteri Frets: 1283

    Weekend Update

    Couldn't do much over the weekend, but still got a good hour or so in yesterday.

    @guitarfishbay - thanks your suggestion worked perfectly on both reverb and delay.

    In fact I'm finding that the key to most things, and although initially it's counter-intuitive to me (for example the default shelving settings on the TS808 seem brutal) it's also very, very effective and once you tune it to it, I like it very much. For example with the TS, want a little more low end - change the filter, it's quick and actually does work.

    Last night I played with some of the more 'blues' amplifiers. Really enjoying the Tweed Twin, sounds amazing. But the surprise was the Swart amp.

    I've played a few of these and really liked them at absolutely gunned volumes, and this into a 2x12 cab on headphones is just immense, warm and thick clean and stick a couple of pedals in front of it and it would rival a JCM800.

    Experimented with the celestion free IR last night - sounds good and is easy to do, but honestly nothing much wrong with the factory ones. May buy an Ownhammer set to try too.

    Also sorted out the wah pedal - by using my ears, on the AX8-edit it was occasionally bypassing, but I think that's a software/display lag, sounds good and that's the main thing (obviously!)

    Fired (briefly) the Helix up too, it still sounds good - and I have a feeling I'm gravitating to creating the same sounds in both, somehow I enjoy playing the AX8 more, even on headphones 

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  • Great.  Yes I find those filters useful.

    I think those stock TS808 settings are correct actually.  http://www.muzique.com/lab/fatt.htm "The reactance of the capacitor (C2) works with the 4.7k resistor to form a high pass filter with a corner frequency of 720 Hz. This means that the response of the low E string of a guitar is down over 20db! The intent of using these values to create such an extreme rolloff of low frequencies was to avoid flabby sound from bass clipping and to create a high boost that will cut through better in a band situation. The treble boost is common among the TS series of overdrives, the Boss SD-1, the Son of Screamer from the AMZ CD-ROM and most other clones of the TS circuit."

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  • I do think Ownhammer IRs are very good - is there a specific sound you're going for?  Which ones are you considering?

    For a basic overview I think the Core Tone bundle is great, but if you're a greenback fan I think it's also worth picking up the Marshall CB412 dual speaker library with the M and H grenbacks.  If you play bass I'd recommend their Ampeg pack too.
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  • peteripeteri Frets: 1283

    Wow! detailed reply, actually given it's only a 6db/octave rollout that's probably right, but it's still really nice to be able to open it up (on some amps).

    I think I'll try the core tone bundle, just to get a flavour. I really like the built in ones - but grass always greener!

    Really nice Fender 2x12, Marshall 2x12 and 4x12 and I'm happy

    And I'm certainly no bass player! :)

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  • The reason I like the Ownhammer IR packs is they are laid out very logically.

    Each mic, or mixture of, is given in positions 00 to 10.  With 00 being brightest and 10 being darkest.  You don't need to know anything about mic positioning to use them, you can just pick one, and then try brighter or darker as needed.  If you don't want to go that detailed they also have some quick folders with a smaller selection of good picks in one place.

    The Celestion IR packs are arranged in a similar way, but they use descriptive words instead.  Again you don't really need to know anything about mic placement to use them.

    Mostly I just like the way the Ownhammer packs are mic'd.  I've owned a bunch of real cabs that correspond to Ownhammer IR packs and it sounds pretty much as I expect it to, which is great for me as when I pull up amps I know how to use it all dials in very quickly and I like the sounds and playing feel.
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 8592
    Ownhammer IRs are good. Kevin has spent several years, and many $000s, buying microphones and researching micing methods. I find them very detailed.
    Tree recycler, and guitarist with  https://www.undercoversband.com/.
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  • welshboyowelshboyo Frets: 1808
    hmm, been thinking about the AX8 too...

    So, interested to hear how it handles being both a direct to PA modeller AND a 4CM unit for gigs where I drag out the Boogie.....about 50/50 at the moment.

    Also, does the AX8 have the ability like the Helix does to run the real amp preamp into an IR and out to the PA to negate the need to mic' up?

    And finally, how does it handle amp switching?
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  • peteripeteri Frets: 1283

    I'm not running 4CM, just straight into the front of the amp, hopefully someone can chime in here.

    Definitely on the second question - it could easily do that - 'real' preamp back in and through an IR

    Ownhammer Core purchased!

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  • peteripeteri Frets: 1283
    Evening Update

    Set myself a new challenge - create an infront of amp pedal board, don't use any amp models - just use it as a FX8 lite if you like.

    Started it up and dropped in a wah, compressor, phaser, FET Drive (Klon esq apparently), Shred Drive (which turned out to be a Marshall ShredMaster), Chorus, Delay, Reverb, Trem

    Then set switches to turn on - compressor, phaser, delay, trem, chorus with the other pedals toggling between scene 1 and 2 (reverb or delay, compressor and chorus), Shreddrive with the gain really low, Shreddrive cranked with the Fet Drive engaged and delay.

    So four basic sounds with modifiers if you like.

    I reckon whole process took me 20 minutes max, including auditioning drive pedals - the Shredmaster really surprised me, I wouldn't have chosen it if I knew what it was - and it's amazing, thick, middlely drive.

    And completely happy - sounds great, really good - responds to guitar changes and volume control and screams. I could cover a gig with that setup happily.

    Tomorrow/Wednesday I'll try the Ownhammer impulses - but this pedalboard has blown me away, was so easy

    Helix LT - much as I love it hasn't given me the same instant gratification, it sounds very, very good - but the AX8 has models which fit my style better and I really enjoy the AX8-Edit.

    And surprisingly (to me) I can live with the limitations easier than I thought.

    It's tending to a keeper!
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  • FarleyUKFarleyUK Frets: 2377
    Fully agree. Sold my Helix and purchased an AX8. Just has a much, much better 'feel' to it when playing, and the amp editing options are immense.

    To me, it sounds better than the Helix as well.
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  • Jonathanthomas83Jonathanthomas83 Frets: 3466
    edited October 2017
    Sounds like you're enjoying. Some drive pedals to try (sorry can't remember the Fractal model names, but they're in there)...

    SD-1
    Timmy (great alternative to a Klon if the FET drive doesn't do it for you)
    Distortion+ (my fave for low gain, a lot like a Cornish SS-3)
    Fuzz Face into a low gain SLP (glorious)
    FET preamp with an LV tube instead of FET :-)
    ...and it's fairly standard but I love the Tube Screamer too!

    Enjoy!
    Read my guitar/gear blog at medium.com/redchairriffs

    View my feedback at www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/1201922
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  • guitarfishbayguitarfishbay Frets: 7953
    edited October 2017
    Yeah, as I've said I only tried the Helix Native demo - through the same monitors I listen to my Axe FX 2 on, so I can't comment on editing on the HW unit.

    But as far as I'm concerned I found I get the sounds I want out of the Fractal with a lot less tweaking.  So in theory the HW Helix would be faster to tweak than my HW Axe FX but I don't really see it as being even because based on the sounds I'd tweak the Fractal so much less that it'd still end up being faster despite the interface.  I don't agree it should take a long time to familiarise yourself with a piece of gear, sure you learn a bit over the first day(s) but if you're still nowhere near happy with the core sounds after two weeks it's probably not going to work out.  There are exceptions, but I've come to be pretty quick at making decisions on gear having bought/sold so much over the past 15 or so years.

    The main reason long return periods (or trials in the case of software) are good are it gives you time to work out if it's worth the money, as it's quite a rig change for a lot of people to go from amps to digital.  I've not regretted it though.
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