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Is the higher end market for acoutics dead?

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VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 15476
Caveat, I am drawing all my evidence of the state of the market for higher end acoustics solely and purely on tFB and I am aware that there may be a whole other world out there beyond the confines of our little fishbowl.

So, it appears to me that the market for higher end boxes seems a little dead. Looking at the classifieds here, I've seen some fantastic guitars almost being given away and still not getting snapped up. Some guy was selling a stunning Atkin and got no takers, another forumite is trying to shift a really nice UK handmade box, no takers and I seem to recall someone trying to sell a larry at a pretty fair price and no takers. 
This got me thinking, while the market for mod range electrics seems buoyant, there doesn't seem to be the same activity in higher end acoustics, or it this just my perception?

I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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Comments

  • WhitecatWhitecat Frets: 5378
    At the same time, suddenly everyone's a Lowden dealer with tonnes of examples in stock... a couple years ago I don't even know where I would have bought one.
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 15476
    yeah, I'm certainly seeing more shops that are either specialising in high end acoustics or carry an impressive stock of them.

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11413

    It's not dead but it's always been a niche thing.  20 or 25 years ago the majority of people I saw playing live would have been using a Takamine or a Yamaha.  You saw a handful of Lowdens and other high end stuff but they were a real minority.

    Today it might be brands like Faith, or the Sheeran type budget Martins but guitars at slightly lower prices are always the mainstream.  The high end stuff has always been niche.

    The fact that Sheeran plays Wembley with £600 guitar shows how good some of that stuff is these days.

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  • I don't think this place is a popular hangout for many primarily acoustic players, and that's who you need if you want to sell expensive acoustics.

    My impression is that acoustics of all price ranges are more popular than ever out there in retail land. 
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  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 7350
    Oh I'd have bought (and taken straight to bed!) that Atkin rosewood dread - just don't have spending money! 

    When I started my "I want a good one" quest some while back I got offers of loads of wonderful high end stuff - the majority of which is still for sale (either overtly or gets offered as swap suggestions)

    I think as @Moe_Zambeek ; says we just don't have a critical mass of acoustic-first types on t'forum currently to form a decent sized market. 
    Red ones are better. 
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  • WhitecatWhitecat Frets: 5378
    One thing that's interesting is that there are WAY more female members/participants in the various acoustic guitar groups on Facebook I belong to. They are like 1 in 100 in groups that are primarily electric guitar but there are probably at least ten times as many in primarily acoustic groups. 

    Anyway, that just equates to more possible buyers I guess...
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71959
    It does seem to me that although the high-end acoustic market is strong from new, that doesn't translate as much into demand and high prices second hand - not for anything other than the 'big name' brands, anyway. It's a little bit the same even for high-end electrics, although not as much.

    If you think it's bad for acoustics, try classicals...

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 15476
    "If you think it's bad for acoustics, try classicals..." don't, I have a really nice spanish made classical that I don't really play, but of I tried to sell it I'd get tuppence ha'penny for it.

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • LewyLewy Frets: 4126
    It seems to me that it’s been a race to the bottom price wise since Ebay enabled everyone to see what the last example of something sold for. Regardless of what the seller’s motivations and circumstances may have been leading them to take a low price, that becomes set as all that thing is worth. So it’s a permanent buyers market from this point on.
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  • mgawmgaw Frets: 5239
    I think there is also an element of "special occasion" purchasing with very high end guitars
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  • jellyrolljellyroll Frets: 3073
    I'm doing my personal best to keep the market buoyant :)
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  • KilgoreKilgore Frets: 8599
    This is 'hot topic' on one of the US acoustic forums. Whether or not the UK market is similar is open to debate but here goes:

    Over supply: most of the top end makers have increased production over the last 20 years. You only have to look at Martin to see the number of 'Vintage' this and 'Authentic' that they have been churning out.
    Most of these have been aimed at an affluent demographic, that is getting on in years. To be blunt, lots of them are either dying or becoming too infirmed to play. This means there are a lot of second hand instruments coming on the market.
    Competition: There are an increasing number of 'second' tier makers with growing reputations who are producing quality instruments, people like Eastman, Furch etc. Maybe consumers are choosing new models from these makers rather than used from tradutional high end makers.

    That's my take on it anyway.
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  • dtrdtr Frets: 1037
    Maybe it's just me (and I'm primarily an acoustic player) but acoustics are way more personal.  I have my one acoustic and it's the only one I want to play - it feels perfect and sounds beautiful.  With electrics, while I don't play them nearly as much some of the fun is the puzzle of putting things together - pickups, pedals, amps, etc, and that leads to wanting to try out different pieces.  I'm always wanting to try something new with my electric setup, but the more I play my acoustic, the deeper I bond with it.
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 15476
    Kilgore said:
    This is 'hot topic' on one of the US acoustic forums. Whether or not the UK market is similar is open to debate but here goes:

    Over supply: most of the top end makers have increased production over the last 20 years. You only have to look at Martin to see the number of 'Vintage' this and 'Authentic' that they have been churning out.
    Most of these have been aimed at an affluent demographic, that is getting on in years. To be blunt, lots of them are either dying or becoming too infirmed to play. This means there are a lot of second hand instruments coming on the market.
    Competition: There are an increasing number of 'second' tier makers with growing reputations who are producing quality instruments, people like Eastman, Furch etc. Maybe consumers are choosing new models from these makers rather than used from tradutional high end makers.

    That's my take on it anyway.
    this strikes me as very insightful, and ties in with my own observations.

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • jellyrolljellyroll Frets: 3073

    This is 'hot topic' on one of the US acoustic forums. Whether or not the UK market is similar is open to debate but here goes:

    Over supply: most of the top end makers have increased production over the last 20 years. You only have to look at Martin to see the number of 'Vintage' this and 'Authentic' that they have been churning out.
    Most of these have been aimed at an affluent demographic, that is getting on in years. To be blunt, lots of them are either dying or becoming too infirmed to play. This means there are a lot of second hand instruments coming on the market.
    Competition: There are an increasing number of 'second' tier makers with growing reputations who are producing quality instruments, people like Eastman, Furch etc. Maybe consumers are choosing new models from these makers rather than used from tradutional high end makers.

    That's my take on it anyway.

    I'd also add PRICING....which (in the UK) has leapt recently... 

    Somebody buys a £4/5/6k guitar new - it's a person who is not so price sensitive but who wants THAT guitar. 

    Come time to sell, they expect to get back 60 - 75% of the new price. That means they expect to get £2 - 4k. But that next tier of buyers ARE perhaps significantly more price sensitive (perhaps working pros as opposed to wealthy hobbyists who buy new). They've seen that used Collings (or whatever) go from £1.5k to over £2k and that's a big jump for them, so they hold off or buy Eastman/Furch instead as @Kilgore says.
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 11413
    jellyroll said:

    Come time to sell, they expect to get back 60 - 75% of the new price. That means they expect to get £2 - 4k. But that next tier of buyers ARE perhaps significantly more price sensitive (perhaps working pros as opposed to wealthy hobbyists who buy new). They've seen that used Collings (or whatever) go from £1.5k to over £2k and that's a big jump for them, so they hold off or buy Eastman/Furch instead as @Kilgore says.

    It's not only price.  Based on my experience of how they sound, I'd rather have a Furch than a Collings anyway.

    I've not played Eastman, but there are some very skilled craftsmen in Eastern Europe, and guitars like Furch are very good.  With Furch, the price difference isn't so much about the quality as about the fact that wages are lower in Eastern Europe.  The fact that there is no import duty helps a bit as well.

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  • Jimbro66Jimbro66 Frets: 2418
    This thread is interesting because it ties in with other threads of recent months.

    Partscasters: The summarised advice to those considering partscasters is that it gets you exactly the guitar you want but don’t expect to get too much for it if you sell it. This seems to apply similarly to higher end acoustics from what I have seen and experienced.

    It’s been reported on the FB that there is a dwindling interest in guitars among younger folk and, as mentioned above by @Kilgore, the older well-heeled players are dying off or having to give up playing. Over time this may adversely affect used guitar values, particularly higher end ones. An American vintage guitar dealer who I know says there is a worry that the whole inflated vintage guitar bubble could burst within the next decade. I wonder what our dealers on here think about that?

    As for selling higher-end acoustics on the FB, I’d say it’s hardly worth trying. Some really nice guitars have been offered here at bargain prices without selling. It’s a great place to buy/sell FX and sub-£1,000 guitars/amps but even then there’s a lot of trading without money changing hands.

    My Santa Cruz OM was sold on commission by a dealer specialising in that market and I would probably take the same route if I ever wanted to sell my Atkin. They target the right buyer and it can actually result in a better return than selling privately (with all the hassle that can involve).
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  • Well I just bought a Lowden so who knows???

    I think the acoustic market is different - there's a bit less chopping and changing and people tend to get to a certain level and then slowly change things round rather than deciding on a whim they want a Strat and that Epiphone Les Paul can go...

    Plus mid-priced electrics are much better than mid priced acoustics, so people might have a mexi strat, an epi les paul, an ibanez jazz box and another strat as a backup, whereas people don't tend to have a faith, a tanglewood, a yamaha and a takamine - they move up through the price range until most of us settle on one or two (or maybe three!) nice pieces but ti takes a while...

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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14323
    VimFuego said:
    I'm certainly seeing more shops that are either specialising in high end acoustics or carry an impressive stock of them
    ... or can not shift them as quickly as they would like.


    Be seeing you.
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  • antifashantifash Frets: 603
     I bought and sold some expensive acoustics here, so not in my experience. 
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