Could you wire this up?

ESBlonde

Coloured cables and coloured dabbs of paint on the connection points. Blue goes to blue, red and green together here etc. A simple set of written instructions and a picture/circuit diagram.

Different people understand the same thing different ways, some can visualise the issue while others take the text and have a litteral understanding. By giving the full range of teachings everyone will get from it what they need.

amarok1971

i havent seen any other guitar wiring diagrams in the form that @robinbowes has shown, look at the seymour duncans, irongear, prs etc... i dont believe it is necessary for us pup swapping hobby guys

Sporky

Alegree said:

Sporky said:

The other thing I'd ask is how usable it is with four pickup controls - are they usefully mapped to the available options?

I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly, but unless you're going to be adding another hole to your guitar, you'll have two tones or two volumes (master tone in this example). All the volumes and master tone work as normal with all the modes.

Sorry; what I mean is this...

What are all those controls doing? There seems to be a 3-way switch like on a Gibson, plus a 3-way rotary, plus two push-pulls. What does each do?

p90fool

amarok1971 said:

i havent seen any other guitar wiring diagrams in the form that @robinbowes has shown, look at the seymour duncans, irongear, prs etc... i dont believe it is necessary for us pup swapping hobby guys

No it isn't. I spent years building circuits in the meteorological industry and build my own amps and pedals so I can read them perfectly well, but I don't see the point in deliberately alienating hobbyists.

It's like writing out Louie Louie in staff notation, it's an exercise in snobbery, not sharing. 

Going in the opposite direction, here's how the late, great Hal Robinson used to draw Harley-Davidson chopper wiring diagrams for hobbyists;

http://i68.tinypic.com/2e654x5.jpg

amarok1971

Brilliant! just needs coloured wires 

Alegree

Sporky said:

Alegree said:

Sporky said:

The other thing I'd ask is how usable it is with four pickup controls - are they usefully mapped to the available options?

I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly, but unless you're going to be adding another hole to your guitar, you'll have two tones or two volumes (master tone in this example). All the volumes and master tone work as normal with all the modes.

Sorry; what I mean is this...

What are all those controls doing? There seems to be a 3-way switch like on a Gibson, plus a 3-way rotary, plus two push-pulls. What does each do?

The push/pull controls the output level of the pickup (neck volume for neck pickup, bridge volume for bridge pickup) from high to low. The rotary is a master single coil/P90/HB mode selection. SC mode with low is Strat, SC mode with high is Tele, P90 with low is split PAF, P90 with high is P90, HB with low is PAF, HB with high is high output humbucker.

robinbowes

I didn't suggest a schematic in lieu of a wiring diagram - they're not mutually exclusive.

As for it being "snobbery", what a ridiculois thing to say. 

R. 

Alegree

ESBlonde said:

Coloured cables and coloured dabbs of paint on the connection points. Blue goes to blue, red and green together here etc. A simple set of written instructions and a picture/circuit diagram.

Different people understand the same thing different ways, some can visualise the issue while others take the text and have a litteral understanding. By giving the full range of teachings everyone will get from it what they need.

That's exactly what I've done here. No one needs to visualise a circuit or understand it in the slightest, they just need to match the colours.

p90fool

robinbowes said:

I didn't suggest a schematic in lieu of a wiring diagram - they're not mutually exclusive.

As for it being "snobbery", what a ridiculois thing to say. 

R. 

 Snobbery is a little strong, no offence intended, but surely when trying to make a product commercially available it's unwise to write the manual in a professional's code?

I like proper schematics too, rather like staff notation it's reliable, repeatable and leaves no room for ambiguity, but only for those who speak the language. 

WezV

Alegree said:

jumping@shadows said:

If you could present this in a cleaner, more consumable ‘PTP’ boutique amp way, with coloured wire, neat routing and cable ties so it looks compact and neat, then it would be much more attractive and I doubt anyone would even care what exactly is going on- at the moment it looks like a mad mess of wires, and not something that inspires confidence or have me reaching for my wallet imho.

I think there's only a certain level of neatness that can be achieved with this. But your point is a good one. I've underestimated how much people buy with their eyes.

I shall make some amendments and post a new photo when I get the new parts!

admittedly, it is partly down to buying with your eyes, but that is not the only reason for neatness.

You have to accept that a pre-wired harness may be handled more than normal for some guitar wiring.  Neatness helps prevent tangles and ensures the end user doesn't put undue stress on the joins. or get controls in the wrong  place.    Many les paul harnesses are almost self supporting which makes it much easier for the end user

Also, you have to factor in trouble shooting because it won't work perfectly for ever user every time, some will simply fuck it up and turn to you for help.  If you use coloured wire, neatly routed,  which matches a coloured wiring diagram it all becomes much simpler for you and the end user to remote diagnose.   

You have suggested already that you will encourage customers to take a pic before wiring as a reference, that becomes much easier with a bit of neatness and colour coding

There are many ways to do it already suggested in this thread, but i suggest you compare yours to other pre-wired harnesses available and the guidance they offer customers.   Yours is admittedly more complex, which is why you need to get this right.  

You almost have to make it "idiot proof", that's maybe a bit insulting, but have a think where your customers may struggle.  As someone who has lost a significant amount of their detail vision in the last 2 years I would need colours, not just like them for the sake of it.

None of this needs to cost you much extra money in parts, and once you have done a few and figured out the best order or operations it really wont take any longer either

Alegree

WezV said:

Alegree said:

jumping@shadows said:

If you could present this in a cleaner, more consumable ‘PTP’ boutique amp way, with coloured wire, neat routing and cable ties so it looks compact and neat, then it would be much more attractive and I doubt anyone would even care what exactly is going on- at the moment it looks like a mad mess of wires, and not something that inspires confidence or have me reaching for my wallet imho.

I think there's only a certain level of neatness that can be achieved with this. But your point is a good one. I've underestimated how much people buy with their eyes.

I shall make some amendments and post a new photo when I get the new parts!

admittedly, it is partly down to buying with your eyes, but that is not the only reason for neatness.

You have to accept that a pre-wired harness may be handled more than normal for some guitar wiring.  Neatness helps prevent tangles and ensures the end user doesn't put undue stress on the joins. or get controls in the wrong  place.    Many les paul harnesses are almost self supporting which makes it much easier for the end user

Also, you have to factor in trouble shooting because it won't work perfectly for ever user every time, some will simply fuck it up and turn to you for help.  If you use coloured wire, neatly routed,  which matches a coloured wiring diagram it all becomes much simpler for you and the end user to remote diagnose.   

You have suggested already that you will encourage customers to take a pic before wiring as a reference, that becomes much easier with a bit of neatness and colour coding

There are many ways to do it already suggested in this thread, but i suggest you compare yours to other pre-wired harnesses available and the guidance they offer customers.   Yours is admittedly more complex, which is why you need to get this right.  

You almost have to make it "idiot proof", that's maybe a bit insulting, but have a think where your customers may struggle.  As someone who has lost a significant amount of their detail vision in the last 2 years I would need colours, not just like them for the sake of it.

None of this needs to cost you much extra money in parts, and once you have done a few and figured out the best order or operations it really wont take any longer either

Good points. I've got a reasonable amount of experience in selling prewired harnesses, but this really is something quite different.

I'm going to do all the shielded wire first then see how it turns out. I'm hoping that'll clear it out enough to avoid too many colours. I want to keep it as colour free as possible to avoid confusion with the colour matching from the loose wires and the pickup wires. But it is a balancing act of doing that and being able to offer enough assistance to the user gathering their bearings around the harness.

I have roughly 10 page pictured step by step guides that I provide with all my harnesses, and as of yet I've had no customers who have been unable to solve their own issues, so I'll certainly be doing one with these.

TTony

Alegree said:

As I'm sure all of you have heard by now, I'm planning on releasing my Chameleon humbuckers very shortly.

Actually, I didn't have any idea about the Chameleon pickup.

*but*

I've now read the blog posts and have 2 conclusions.  

Firstly, that's an interesting and ambitious design and I'd be quite interested in how it turns out.  What price will you be selling them at?

Secondly, I can completely understand why you might want to offer a wiring harness to accompany the pickups - lots of wiring options might scare off some potential pickup buyers.  Not sure how you could offer a pre-wired harness to match all the possible bodies and existing cavity / contol hole combinations though?


So, watching with a lot more interest now!

Handsome_Chris

To answer the OP,  yes I could.

rico

Interesting idea but If I want different tones out of a humbucker I twiddle the volume and tone knobs...

RiftAmps

To be honest @Alegree, I would be asking for an immediate refund if you sent that to me, whether I knew my way around a soldering iron or not. It's simply not of the standard required (and expected) by guitarists in 2017.

So, what can we FB folk do to help? If you want to send me the parts (3 x pots, 2 x switches, 1 x socket) I'll have a go to see just how neat I can make it, whilst maintaining the 'ease of installation' brief. If I succeed, you are welcome to use it

TTony

RiftAmps said:

So, what can we FB folk do to help? If you want to send me the parts (2 x pots, 2 x switches, 1 x socket) I'll have a go to see just how neat I can make it, whilst maintaining the 'ease of installation' brief. If I succeed, you are welcome to use it

Now, thats an offer!

Sporky

We could do a compo. Best wire job wins a pair of the pickups.

AustrianJohn

In the OP @Alegree said this setup was "to provide access to every tone available"

Ignoring issues about the wiring - is providing access to every tone available actually useful? I did a "Jimmy Page" wiring on a LP build with 4 push/push pots a while back. It gave a wonderful variety of sounds, but I could never remember in a live situation which pot to push and which to pull to get the tone I wanted.

Keep it simple. Pick your favourite two or three tones and make it easy to find them.

Sporky

Also it doesn't afford access to every tone. You'd need a six way rotary per pickup for that, plus series parallel switching, phase switching and more.

Three to five combos is useful. More is often less usable.

Alegree

AustrianJohn said:

In the OP @Alegree said this setup was "to provide access to every tone available"

Ignoring issues about the wiring - is providing access to every tone available actually useful? I did a "Jimmy Page" wiring on a LP build with 4 push/push pots a while back. It gave a wonderful variety of sounds, but I could never remember in a live situation which pot to push and which to pull to get the tone I wanted.

Keep it simple. Pick your favourite two or three tones and make it easy to find them.

Do you own a Strat? Do you own a Tele? Do you own a P90 loaded guitar? Do you own a HB loaded guitar? A lot of people do and they enjoy the tones from all of them. I'm familiar with the wiring and would have no problem switching tones on the fly in a live situation. Anyway that's a moot point, as the pickups are designed specifically for that purpose and therefore I will be selling a harness to do so. 

TTony said:

Alegree said:

As I'm sure all of you have heard by now, I'm planning on releasing my Chameleon humbuckers very shortly.

Actually, I didn't have any idea about the Chameleon pickup.

*but*

I've now read the blog posts and have 2 conclusions.  

Firstly, that's an interesting and ambitious design and I'd be quite interested in how it turns out.  What price will you be selling them at?

Secondly, I can completely understand why you might want to offer a wiring harness to accompany the pickups - lots of wiring options might scare off some potential pickup buyers.  Not sure how you could offer a pre-wired harness to match all the possible bodies and existing cavity / contol hole combinations though?


So, watching with a lot more interest now!

I'm looking at £200 as a ballpark figure for a set at the moment.

I'm intending on doing harnesses for LP and Strat at the moment. I'll cross the bridge of what else to offer as it is requested.

RiftAmps said:

To be honest @Alegree, I would be asking for an immediate refund if you sent that to me, whether I knew my way around a soldering iron or not. It's simply not of the standard required (and expected) by guitarists in 2017.

So, what can we FB folk do to help? If you want to send me the parts (3 x pots, 2 x switches, 1 x socket) I'll have a go to see just how neat I can make it, whilst maintaining the 'ease of installation' brief. If I succeed, you are welcome to use it

The point of the thread was literally just 'are you capable?'. This is a first and very rough prototype.  Thanks for the offer, but I still have much to iron out in the design before I even think about presentation yet. When I do get to that stage, we'll see if I need to take you up on the offer . Here's a pretty Tele harness to combat the amateur look of the first.