Gibson CEO rumours

Jonathanthomas83

crunchman said:

PRS have refused dilute the brand name with cheaper guitars and it seems to be working for them.

Have they? PRS himself is very proud of the SE range, they've started putting the signature on the headstock of the SE range, haven't they? Or are we talking about something completely different? Sorry.

olafgarten

crunchman said:

olafgarten said:

Their best bet would be to move lower end guitars to the Epiphone Factory, but with US parts and higher quality wood. Sort of like the S2 range, but priced around £1k

Then they need to make a US Standard Range for around than £1.5k and above that they can have higher end stuff priced at whatever insane price they want. 

I'm not sure there would be a lot of profit in a nitro finished US Standard range at a £1.5k price point.  The Fender American Pro guitars seem to retail around £1400, and they aren't nitro finished, and they are a much simpler build.  Realistically you would have to be around the £2k point on those to make them worthwhile.

I think they would be better upping the spec slightly and putting a long tenon neck joint and pricing them around £2.5k.  It would still be cheaper than a new PRS.  It would also make a real distinction between a LP Studio and LP Standard.

But that is just the retail price, I think the American Pro probably has quite a high markup. Also with Modern CNC, the only extra steps are gluing the top and the neck. 

They need to consider cutting their profit margins to drive up sales numbers.

crunchman

underdog said:

olafgarten said:

Their best bet would be to move lower end guitars to the Epiphone Factory, but with US parts and higher quality wood. Sort of like the S2 range, but priced around £1k

Then they need to make a US Standard Range for around than £1.5k and above that they can have higher end stuff priced at whatever insane price they want. 

From a customer point of view I'd hate to see them move their lower models offshore. The big success for me the past 5 years for Gibson has been the LPJ, tribute, satin models.

How much profit can they be making on those though?

pmbomb

Speaking as a fairly new player:
* the Gibson line up is utterly baffling
* I bought a new PRS, it was a dumb thing to do as I lost 30% when I carried out the shop (like cars) and the second market is saturated because guitars, essentially, don't wear out (unlike cars!).

I can't see myself every buying new again, I bet that's a typical pattern for many people, so whoever's new at Gibson has to have a serious rethink. Fender are barking up the right tree by offering tuition aimed at reducing the huge attrition rate of new players.

pmbomb

do you guys who have been playing a while ever buy new? really?

Phil_aka_Pip

pmbomb said:

do you guys who have been playing a while ever buy new? really?

All my Gibbos are s/h. I own 2 Yamahas bought new. Next intended purchase is another Gibbo, most likely s/h.

andy1839

pmbomb said:

do you guys who have been playing a while ever buy new? really?

Yep. All the time. Amps, pedals & guitars. At least I know I can get what I want, when I want it rather than wait on the off chance something I want will turn up on the used market. 

Of of course I still love scoring a bargain used toy now and again!

Whitecat

pmbomb said:

do you guys who have been playing a while ever buy new? really?

yep. if something is interesting it's interesting. I like a deal mind you...

CHRISB50

pmbomb said:

do you guys who have been playing a while ever buy new? really?

I've never bought anything second hand, guitar wise. I'm left handed. There is no second hand market.

crunchman

pmbomb said:

do you guys who have been playing a while ever buy new? really?

Yes

My current electrics are 5 I bought new, and 2 second hand.  The ratio has been different in the past with more second hand.

My bass was second hand.  My acoustics were bought new.

SteveRobinson

underdog said:

From a customer point of view I'd hate to see them move their lower models offshore. 

All Gibson guitars are all made offshore, aren't they?

Teetonetal

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Teetonetal said:

Gibson just make way too many guitars, with way too many options in a confusing naming structure.

Fender do it as well. Doesn't excuse it though

Not really, at least not to the same extent. Gibson is a total nightmare. So many changes from year to year.

Phil_aka_Pip

@Teetonetal I agree Gibson's product range and nomenclature is confusing but I've also seen huge numbers of strats and wouldn't know where to start in picking one, should I wish to do so.

jeztone2

pmbomb said:

do you guys who have been playing a while ever buy new? really?

Yes depends what it is. When Fender brought the Kotzen Strat into the UK. They priced it £300 below what they sell for in Japan. So it was cheaper than a grey import used one. I literally ran to GuitarGuitar on Monday morning. 

If I bond with a guitar, I bond with it. So some of mine are bought used. Some new. It’s a mix. 

DannyP

I am ignorant. If Gibson did go to the wall, what happens to their patents?

Is it open season for open book headstocks? Or are they never seen again?

Although I would assume the brand is too big not to carry on in some form regardless.

crunchman

DannyP said:

I am ignorant. If Gibson did go to the wall, what happens to their patents?

Is it open season for open book headstocks? Or are they never seen again?

Although I would assume the brand is too big not to carry on in some form regardless.

That's copyright/trademark rather than patent.  A patent expires after 25 years anyway.

If they go to the wall, the receiver that is appointed would sell off the assets to try to pay back the creditors (with what is left after the receiver takes a big fat fee).   Any trademarks/copyrights would be intellectual property that would be sold off.  Whoever bought them would then have the right to make Gibson branded guitars with the Gibson headstock.

stickyfiddle

pmbomb said:

do you guys who have been playing a while ever buy new? really?

Yeah, sometimes.

I bought my first SG new, when they first started doing the faded SG Specials. And I got my Dove new, because it was the best dreadnought in the shop. Id happily do that again if the right guitar presented itself. 

But ive bought 4 used and that’s generally my first port of call when looking.

stickyfiddle

DannyP said:

I am ignorant. If Gibson did go to the wall, what happens to their patents?

Is it open season for open book headstocks? Or are they never seen again?

Although I would assume the brand is too big not to carry on in some form regardless.

They won't disappear. They'll file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, take 6 months to restructure (i.e. sell most of the subsidiaries) default on a big chunk of their debt, and be bought out for $1 by someone else. The resulting company would have a good chance of becoming a smaller, but successful company, if managed properly.

underdog

crunchman said:

underdog said:

olafgarten said:

Their best bet would be to move lower end guitars to the Epiphone Factory, but with US parts and higher quality wood. Sort of like the S2 range, but priced around £1k

Then they need to make a US Standard Range for around than £1.5k and above that they can have higher end stuff priced at whatever insane price they want. 

From a customer point of view I'd hate to see them move their lower models offshore. The big success for me the past 5 years for Gibson has been the LPJ, tribute, satin models.

How much profit can they be making on those though?

Like I said, from a customer point of view I'd hate them to stop. Also they can serve as a gateway guitar for people, so they aspire to owning that R9 or whatever.

humbucko

Everyone's got their opinion on what Gibson needs to do and we're probably all right to some extent.

Ditching the yearly models idea would be a great first step... they should realise noone really wants a "modern" guitar - most people who want to make "modern" music with every effect pedal under the sun still like using basic vintage instruments. Maybe do the odd model with something like a sustainer in (see the new Fender Radiohead bloke guitar), but that's about it.

Start making the models that people actually like at proper price points (why is the upcoming 2018 SG Junior the same price as an SG Standard?), ditch the myriad of Studio, Faded, Tribute options and just have your cheap Les Paul as the same type as a traditional/standard, but make it in Japan or Korea. Basically what Fender do with Mexico.