C18Q1. Learning to read music notation

Rocker

and a little music theory. I have always played music 'by ear'. Accordion, penny whistle, mouth organ, piccolo, guitar - all try it and squeeze out a tune. Recently I have taken to the bass and this has alerted me to the fact that I know little music theory. I don't want to be a copyist player, watch something on YouTube and learn it off, but to contribute to the sound of our little band. Something musical, something of me into the sound.

So I got a book on how to read music. At 61 and going on 62, my book learning ability is very reduced. I always found it difficult to learn from a book. As an apprentice electrician, I read about Ohms Law. Basic stuff but until someone explained it to me, it never really made any sense. Same with music theory.  I will be joining a music lesson class sometime in January. The teacher recommends using a keyboard to help the learning process. Old keyboard obtained also an X type keyboard stand.

The work starts today.

TTony

Interested in whether you find it helps.

I'm another who's never learned to read music ...

m_c

As somebody who learnt keyboard long before playing guitar, what theory I do know, I find far clearer/visualise better on a keyboard/piano context than guitar. I suspect the big reasons are, notes only exist on one place on a keyboard, and it's far easier to find that place on a keyboard.
I'm still rubbish at reading the bass clef though.

If you've got a smart phone/tablet, I would highly recommend installing a notation learning app. I always find spending a few minutes regularly on these things, works well at ingraining the required knowledge.

Good luck with your challenge!

Philtre

Good luck! I was fortunate as I learnt to read music when I was aged 9 from school violin lessons. I then went on to pore over musical scores and then onto sight reading. The only thing that got me there was loads of practice!

Rocker

On an earlier discussion thread, Question for keys/piano players, @goldtop suggested:

"Check with headphones. Is the distortion still there? And does it remain when you lower the volume?"

I did this and was almost deafened by the volume.  It seems that on my keyboard, the output volume level does not affect the headphone output.  But at least it sounded like a piano!  So I found a cable in my spares box, one that has mini stereo jacks on both ends, and connected the keyboard to the MP3 input of my Orange Micro Terror.  Sound, lots of it, and not distorted.  In fact I had to turn down the volume control on the Micro, which even at a very low setting, gives the volume equivalent of an upright piano.  And the distortion I reported on the previous thread was gone.  Using the keyboard speakers, it still sounds as distorted (bad) as ever but at least I have a workable instrument.  Thanks for the suggestion @goldtop

goldtop

Good to know. I can only assume that something's come adrift internally, making the Volume control effectively out of circuit. A ground connection, perhaps? Might not be worth repairing though.

Rocker

Not much to update but here goes:

The Music School lessons have not started yet, hopefully soon.  As the lessons use a keyboard to learn the notes etc., I have been spending some time practicing scales.  Well the C scale - up and down.  Also using my left hand to play the C scale two octaves below the middle C.  And spent some time trying, unsuccessfully, to play the C scale with both hands.  Not sure if this skill will be of any use but it is something to do.  Also I have learned, but not quite nailed down, the chords in the key of C.  Again using both hands.

Having got some idea of the chord fingering, I attempted to play a song.  The only songs that I could think of in the key of C are 'No Woman No Cry' and 'Let It Be'.  Both songs use the same chords, C major, A minor, F major and G major but in a different sequence.  Making some slight progress.

I would appreciate any suggestions of songs to learn.  Also links to useful piano websites, bearing in mind that I am a rank beginner......  Thanks in anticipation.

randella

Rocker - it’s a comedy sketch but it outlines a few more tunes you can use with C, Am, F, and G. Keep an eye out for the two you mentioned...

https://youtu.be/5pidokakU4I

m_c

Songs wise, anything that sounds simple!

I'd suggest having a search on your favoured book retailer for beginner/learn to play piano/keyboard, and see what ones contain songs you like.

It's shame you never started before Christmas, as plenty Christmas songs are very easy to play (silent night, and jingle bells are easy). Only non Christmas song I can think of that is simple to play, is Auld Lang Syne (which is in the Key of F, but you never play the Bb in the standard melody line). Happy Birthday is another easy one.
Typically for easy piano/keyboard, you just play the melody line with your right hand, and then chords with your left (once you're confident with the melody line, just start with the root note of the relevant chord with your left hand, before gradually adding in the full chord).

Rocker

Can anyone suggest an easy beginners book on learning to play the piano. Getting my fingers to work is even more difficult than playing chords on the guitar. There are lots of videos on the internet but they don't seem to be of any help to me at this stage. No doubt they will help when I get some basic skills down.  Thanks

Sporky

Lady BMcH learned from books - I will ask.

VimFuego

I'm currently learning/having lessons for clarinet, but across a lot of instruments the book of choice seems to be the Abracadabra series. 

stickyfiddle

Good challenge (and making us gear heads all look mildly bad with something so wholesome!) 

FWIW I learned to read through recorder, piano, clarinet and sax, but never applied it to guitar. I'm not aware of any vaguely-modern books but keen to see how you get on. Good luck!

Sporky

Lady BMcH suggests the Piano Adventures series.

There is a kiddy series and an adult series; she particulaly recommends the kiddy series.

Rocker

Thanks @Sporky, there is a huge range of books in that series.  I think I will start at the first kiddies series and see what happens......

Rocker

stickyfiddle said:

Good challenge (and making us gear heads all look mildly bad with something so wholesome!) 

It is me who is in awe of the woodwork and guitar construction skills that so many forum members have.  I decided to learn about music with the hope that some knowledge will help my bass playing.  Maybe it will and maybe it won't, but it is the journey that is interesting.  A bit overwhelming at the moment but hopefully that will pass......

Rocker

For those of you who think guitar sections of music shops are chaotic and noisy on a Saturday, think again.  No, I am not thinking about the drum section.  Rather the piano section.

I was in Waltons, Dublin yesterday.  Checking out what digital keyboards were on offer and selling prices.  The female shop assistant was very helpful.  She showed me a range of Yamaha keyboards and one or two 'lower priced' digital pianos.  I explained about my fingers which are large, thus the lower priced keyboards are unsuitable as two keys get pressed when one is needed!

Which means either a real piano or its digital equivalent.  The Roland FP 30 is a very impressive instrument but a lot out of my purchasing league.  I did consider offering to swap my cased USA Fender Telecaster for it.  This remains an option but I would like to think about it further.  A very serious contender is the Yamaha Piaggero NP32.  At less than half the price of the Roland, it manages to feel reasonably close to a real piano.  The keys felt slightly smaller than those on a real piano, this may or may not be the case but that is how they felt width wise.  The playing feel of the NP32 was different than that on a real piano, that might be a problem if I was learning on the NP32 and taking exams on a real piano.  A lot of food for thought and time well spent.  Even if no money changed hands yesterday.

I mentioned earlier about the noise!  It seemed that every real piano, those priced below €4K, were being 'played' by people of various skill levels.  I heard bits of Fur Elise, some Beethoven pieces and an awful lot of noise.  Apart from myself, only one person seemed to be comparing the various instruments.

I did feel sorry for the shop assistants who mostly stand there selling bits and pieces while the racket continues unabated.  The acoustic guitar section is beside the pianos.  It would be impossible to determine the sound quality of an acoustic guitar on a Saturday!

Another very small step towards my goal of being able to read music.

Rocker

At long last I located a teacher that will teach music notation and basic keyboard skills. First lesson on Friday...

Rocker

The lesson went very well and oh so quickly. First lesson was basically finding out what I know and where I am musically. Some theory explained and then some keyboard skills. The chords for Hotel California also an explanation of major and minor chords. Then he showed me a basic 12 bar blues shuffle on the keyboard. This uses both hands at the same time. Sounded great when he played it, much less so when I tried it. But that is what lessons are for - to learn new skills. Off my own bat, I learned to play the first four bars of Fur Elise. Slowly, using both hands. I cheated by writing the note names above the staves but I still had to know what the notes are to do that  

So some progress even if still at the abc stage....

Corvus

Hats off Rocker, looks like you're taking on rather more than reading alone.

The cheating is what I did too but soon found by trying to read little & often, it got easier. I'm still very slow mind but I never wanted to sight read. If it's help get along the road then don't beat yourself up calling it cheating, i reckon.

Ravenous

Rocker said:

I cheated by writing the note names above the staves but I still had to know what the notes are to do that  

The interesting thing about written notation & the piano (I say this as a very raw beginner level pianist) is after a while you "see" the distances between vertical dots in a chord quite quickly, then you know if it's a major or minor or one of the inversions, without having to count notes or write notes down.

(These distances on the page are, literally, intervals. As long as they're all in the key signature, so no sharps or flats change the vertical gaps.)