MultiFX for 4-cable-method, but with analogue distortion?

gearaddict

Do people use the MS-3 as a full multi-fx? I don't see why not in theory but it doesn't seem to be used in that way, generally...are the built in effects not great?

english_bob

gearaddict said:

Do people use the MS-3 as a full multi-fx? I don't see why not in theory but it doesn't seem to be used in that way, generally...are the built in effects not great?

As far as I know the effects are the same as on the most recent GT-series processor.

And I thought that was *exactly* how they were supposed to be used- mostly as a multi-effect, but with space for a few things you can't duplicate with the onboard stuff.

goldtop

Some interesting extra ideas. Did see that one the omissions from both the Red Truck and Nux thing is a noise gate.

MS-3's almost like a shrunk version of that huge ME-X board that Boos did.

EricTheWeary

I had it in my head that you'd eliminated the MS3 on the OP but you hadn't.

You can spend less money and get the same GT level of effects but you'd lose the functionality of the loops. The Boss marketing also basically says yes our digital overdrives are a bit shit so add some of your own.  In this case that doesn't matter but I find it a bit off putting. And by the time you've bought an MS3 and a couple of decent overdrive pedals and a board you could have got a Helix HX. 

ICBM

I think it's more that they know people have their own favourite overdrives, rather than that they think their digital ones sound shit. If you have a vintage TS-808 or a modern boutique overdrive that you love, it doesn't matter how good the digital ones in a multi-FX are, they won't be good enough.

EricTheWeary

ICBM said:

I think it's more that they know people have their own favourite overdrives, rather than that they think their digital ones sound shit. If you have a vintage TS-808 or a modern boutique overdrive that you love, it doesn't matter how good the digital ones in a multi-FX are, they won't be good enough.


I'm sure they weren't really trying to say their overdrives are shit, just me reading between the lines and falling down a crevasse.
I guess it only answers the OP's question if he already has some favourite OD pedals. If not then it's potentially quite an expensive solution. 

gearaddict

Yeah, at £450 the HX Effects is hard to argue against. At £540 it starts to feel a bit too close to Helix LT money. MS-3 seems too expensive if it's basically a smaller, more expensive, less easy to use GT-100 with no expression pedal. When GT-100s can be had for half the price.

The Nux Cerberus looks cool but I suspect it won't have the quality of sounds to be anything more than an experiment that you replace after a while with something bigger and better. I dunno. Maybe not.

goldtop

Thinking about how I'd leave this all connected, I definitely want one box (not loops to outside stompboxes), and that definitely involves a bit of compromise. From a bit of YT watching, the Mooer tones appeal to me, and a bonus is the modulation of the reverb for that modern sparkly reverb effect.

A forumite has offered his TREX Soulmate so more listening ahead...

gearaddict

Did you find a solution in the end?

goldtop

I'm sitting on the fence and getting splinters! The NUX on features, the Mooer on tone/flexibility - at least from video clips. Both have the hands-on thing I want.

MS-3 would be a cool solution - if I already had a pedal board, but I just have a motley collection. So the one box + 4 cables method as I'm using now with the ME-5 is better. Annoyingly the ME-5 fetches peanuts these days, so selling it won't raise much cash.

gearaddict

In fact the ME-5 looks like one of the better options! I guess newer isn't always better. What is the issue with the digital effects...just a bit naff?

ICBM

gearaddict said:

In fact the ME-5 looks like one of the better options! I guess newer isn't always better. What is the issue with the digital effects...just a bit naff?

Some of the lower-budget ones don't sound great, but a big part of it is the faff of programming them, I think. The ME5 is not exempt from this either - despite the analogue effects, the programming is pure push-button column/row/parameter digital and is a real pain in the backside to edit quickly.

The interesting thing is that the ME-50 not only has almost all knob-based adjustments, the actual sound quality is outstanding. I carefully A/B'd mine against my analogue pedalboard using a LS-2 as a loop switcher (so I could exactly match the levels too, which is critical for an accurate tone comparison), and the result was... I sold a lot of my analogue pedals. The ME-50 genuinely sounded as good, or in some cases *better* - even including some of the distortions, which was a real shock. And the ME-50 is not even an expensive unit, it was near the bottom of the range when it was in production and can now be picked up for under £100 usually. It does have flaws, but the sound quality isn't one of them.

gearaddict

Just the 4CM missing. Shame. I guess with the ME-80 you also have the pre-amps so have the option of going straight to a power amp...can you go straight to PA with those?

goldtop

gearaddict said:

In fact the ME-5 looks like one of the better options! I guess newer isn't always better. What is the issue with the digital effects...just a bit naff?

As ICBM says - it's not quick to bend down and just tweak the drive a bit, or fiddle with the levels, etc. And the reverb is definitely outdated.

Another thing is the modulation is before the loop, so in a 4CM hook-up you get chorus/flanging before the amp's preamp distortion instead of after.

ICBM

gearaddict said:

Just the 4CM missing. Shame. I guess with the ME-80 you also have the pre-amps so have the option of going straight to a power amp...can you go straight to PA with those?

Probably with the ME-80, if you like COSM preamps direct... the ME-50, just about in a pinch - although it's better with an outboard speaker simulator.

I haven't tried the 80 - I have tried the 70, and I didn't like it. Despite the preamp modelling and the wider range of effects, it just didn't sound as good - it had more of that so-called 'digital' thinness, the ME-50 is noticeably warmer and fuller-sounding. I'm not sure why! Or if the 80 is more like the 70 on that count - I have to admit it's lost one of the great beauties of the 50 which is the simplicity - they've made it too fussy with those double footswitches, for me. They also dropped the resonant filter on the expression pedal, which is one of my favourite things about the 50.

It's the lack of 4CM and proper programmability of the manual mode that are the flaws with the 50, for me. But I can live with both now - although I did have to buy and sell three of them before I accepted it, and the fourth one is staying .

gearaddict

Ha! I thought I was the only one to buy and sell and re-buy things

I used to have a ME-50. I think it was the 4CM thing that made me move it on. I think I then moved on to the GT8. I actually quite liked that. Can't remember why I sold it, but I later tried the GT10 which I didn't like as much for some reason. I think I remember finding it thinner sounding. I'm thinking of trying the GT100 on the basis that it is the same colour as the GT8 and therefore should sound similar.

TheBigDipper

gearaddict said:

Ha! I thought I was the only one to buy and sell and re-buy things

I used to have a ME-50. I think it was the 4CM thing that made me move it on. I think I then moved on to the GT8. I actually quite liked that. Can't remember why I sold it, but I later tried the GT10 which I didn't like as much for some reason. I think I remember finding it thinner sounding. I'm thinking of trying the GT100 on the basis that it is the same colour as the GT8 and therefore should sound similar.

There's a lot to like about the GT-100. I'm using it as a MultiFX into an amp. The two screen system makes it straightforward to set up sounds without lots of menu diving or referring back to the manual. I'm rarely using the Tone Studio software to edit patches. 

Boss MFX fanatics say the GT-10 sounds much thinner/nasal than the GT-8 or the GT-100. I've only ever used the GT-100 from Boss - and many Line 6 units at "less than Helix" specs.

The modulation effects are decent without being spectacular. I don't use overdriven sounds much any more, so I'm not spending much time with those effects - in fact I'm having more success by using pre-amps as a source of overdriven tones. 

I'm not using 4CM - only one of my amps has an effects send/return, and I'd rather keep the signal in the digital domain until I send it to the amp. As most of my sounds are clean-ish, I don't need to keep the modulation effects until after the preamp in the way I might have done a few years ago. It only has one send/return point, (moveable), so you have to decide if you want it for analogue effects before the guitar input or if you want 4CM - and using it in either case puts you through another stage of DA/AD conversion. 

ICBM

The GT-8 is on my list to try as well, as it's the same generation as the ME-50 and has at least some of the same sounds as far as I can tell - especially the 'Natural' and 'Loud' overdrive/distortion settings, which are the ones I use most.

If the GT-10 sounded thinner than the GT-8 that might fit with the ME-70/ME-50 change too, since they also correspond...

gearaddict

What about something like the Amplifire 6? Not exactly great for tweaking on the fly though.

flying_pie

gearaddict said:

Ha! I thought I was the only one to buy and sell and re-buy things

I used to have a ME-50. I think it was the 4CM thing that made me move it on. I think I then moved on to the GT8. I actually quite liked that. Can't remember why I sold it, but I later tried the GT10 which I didn't like as much for some reason. I think I remember finding it thinner sounding. I'm thinking of trying the GT100 on the basis that it is the same colour as the GT8 and therefore should sound similar.

I use a GT 100 with 4cm for gigging. As I'm a vocalist and guitarist the ability to switch amp channels and multiple effects with a single stomp is perfect for me. The effects are fine and I love the ability to put some in front your amp preamp and others after it. 

I don't like the COSM for anything other than cleanish sounds so barely use it other than having an emergency patch which can be used in manual mode into a PA if my amp were to give up on me mid gig.