Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In with Google

Become a Subscriber!

Subscribe to our Patreon, and get image uploads with no ads on the site!

Read more...

Gone back to valves

What's Hot
sweepysweepy Frets: 4159
After owning two Helixes and one Fractal Axe-Fx II I have decided to return to trusty old valves and pedals . The driving reason for this was when I bought myself a Fender Journeyman Strat from a Peach and plugged straight into a Dr Z, I had a grin a mile wide . The modelling gear is very good these days but there is something special in a Valve amp interacting with a good guitar, it’s fun to be back 
0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 20reaction image Wisdom
«13456

Comments

  • jellybellyjellybelly Frets: 734
    edited February 2018
    I have wondered how many have/will do this. 

    I played a Helix in a shop recently. Was pretty impressive, but the I plugged into a little Fender Princeton and knew instantly which I preferred...
    1reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • RiftAmpsRiftAmps Frets: 3113
    edited February 2018 tFB Trader
    YES @sweepy !
    *I no longer offer replacement speaker baffles*
    Rift Amplification
    Handwired Guitar Amplifiers
    Brackley, Northamptonshire
    www.riftamps.co.uk

    1reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • LebarqueLebarque Frets: 3755
    Correct decision
    1reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 3reaction image Wisdom
  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 31369
    I have a dabble with digital every 6 or 7 years or so, and sometimes convince myself for a few months that the tech has caught up to the point where it doesn't matter in a pub gig situation, but it really hasn't. 

    I spent 100 quid on a used Jet City head a couple of weeks ago, and I just can't stop playing it, it's just reacts to my playing input like a real musical instrument.  
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 3reaction image Wisdom
  • tone1tone1 Frets: 5112
    I know it’s not in the same league, but my little Blackstar HT1R head always puts a grin on my face. :)
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • I use modelling a lot when I record, and it's easier to get a good sound down. But modeling gear is always copying something that already exists, and because it is programmed, the model can only do what the programmers have chosen to include.

    To me, a model is like fake film grain in a phone app. It's trying to ape something else. Even if it gets there 100%, then it still can't produce happy analog accidents. For instance, an overdriven mic preamp can sound so good that you might it turn it onto a pedal (the Broadcast). This is a happy side effect of misusing the preamp.

     For an overdriven digital preamp to add saturation, or playing dirt, to a sound, it has to be designed in consciously.

    Digital effects, on the other hand, get interesting when they depart from modeling (copying) analog effects and do their own thing. The Eventide H9 is a good example. 

    I'm not ragging on digital. I love it, and it's so convenient. Often, it sounds as good as the real thing, especially when recorded. But it's fundamentally a different concept. Analog gear is built to do a job. Digital is built to copy something from the real world.

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 3reaction image Wisdom
  • OnparOnpar Frets: 415
    What was the Dr Z you played that you were so impressed with?
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • p90fool said:
    I have a dabble with digital every 6 or 7 years or so, and sometimes convince myself for a few months that the tech has caught up to the point where it doesn't matter in a pub gig situation, but it really hasn't. 

    I spent 100 quid on a used Jet City head a couple of weeks ago, and I just can't stop playing it, it's just reacts to my playing input like a real musical instrument.  
    @p90fool Have you given up on the Katana then?
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 31369
    Yeah, sold it two weeks ago. I just couldn't get it to sound as good at gig volume as it did at home.

    I don't have the space or even the need for a practice amp tbh, so I ditched it while it was still worth a few quid. 

    My life has suddenly reverted to absolute simplicity - turn up, bung amps in a heap on the stage, turn the knobs to exactly the same settings as last night, play guitar. 

    No more Algorithm Angst. 
    :)
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 6reaction image Wisdom
  • I feel like it’s all about the power amp interacting with the speakers. This is where so many setups fall down that are through traditional cabinets. I actually think the Axe FX 2 is pretty decent through a solid state power amp into a traditional cab but after buying a Mesa 2:90 I still think a valve power section has a lot to offer.

    For anything direct digital is fantastic these days for most things.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • richhrichh Frets: 449
    I loved my Kemper and for certain things it would be great, if I needed loads of different models.  Also great for easy recording and headphone practice of course!  In my case though, as I was mostly just using a basic cleanish sound with reverb, I went back to valves (Lazy J20 & Rift PT20) and found that it put that smile on my face, as you say.

    Not knocking digital, there is some great stuff out there though.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14324
    feel ... the power amp interacting with the speakers
    ^
    This.
    Be seeing you.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    There's also the natural compression and a narrowing of the bandwidth into the midrange as the power section is pushed into overdrive, which makes the dynamic and tone response useful when you play harder - and seems to be quite hard to model well for reasons I don't fully understand.

    Even analogue solid-state amps don't do this, they tend to go the other way - they clip fairly abruptly, and when clipped they produce more fundamentals and high frequencies which not only sound farty and buzzy, it essentially scoops the midrange and tends to make the amp disappear in the mix.

    Valve amps, for all their totally unintended limitations, just 'work' for electric guitar. I've always thought it should be a fairly easy thing to simulate with solid-state or digital given the sort of circuit analysis and processing power available in the modern world, but it really doesn't seem to be...

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 31369
    ...and yet, the Pignose 7-100 manages it. Could it be something to do with output transformers rather than actual valves? 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • The only way I'll be getting any digital stuff is for live, at venues where the PA is good and transport could be an issue. At home though I would prefer valve amps (just upgraded to a DSL5c and its very good). With the power reduction switch I can crank it a bit louder and really get the tubes cooking, allowing for a warmer tone.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    p90fool said:
    ...and yet, the Pignose 7-100 manages it. Could it be something to do with output transformers rather than actual valves? 
    It is definitely a factor, and yet when the same thing is scaled up it doesn't seem to work as well.

    It could also be that the Pignose has almost no low or high frequency response anyway...

    And it's not exactly everyone's idea of the last word in tone ;).

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 31369
    ICBM said:
    p90fool said:
    ...and yet, the Pignose 7-100 manages it. Could it be something to do with output transformers rather than actual valves? 
    It is definitely a factor, and yet when the same thing is scaled up it doesn't seem to work as well.

    It could also be that the Pignose has almost no low or high frequency response anyway...

    And it's not exactly everyone's idea of the last word in tone ;).
    Wash your mouth out! Lol 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71963
    p90fool said:

    Wash your mouth out! Lol 
    I quite like them actually - I should probably get another one really! - but they only do one thing, and it isn't what most people would call 'great tone'...

    I've owned about three or four of them - I think all bar the first one were given to me broken because the build quality is shockingly poor and they're often not economically repairable. I fixed them for the fun of it and then sold them to people who were looking for a battery-powered busking amp, before you could buy proper things like a Micro Cube.

    And the casing has to be held open at precisely 43.65º to get 'the sound' :).

    So in reality I don't think that having an output transformer is what makes an amp good - or at least not by itself. There are a few other solid-state amps with them too - and they don't, really.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Frets: 13929
    edited February 2018

    Agreed, I love the sound of guitar through a valve amp but I have a Helix as well. I use as a programmable pedalboard with the valve amp (Mesa Express+) and as full modeller for direct recording and quiet practice.

    Best of both worlds, except 4CM is pain in the tits at times.

    For me, the thing I love about valve amps and guitar speakers is that narrow bandwidth of tone, that mid range thing. Modellers through FRFR have too wide a bandwidth and sound too hi-fi, even with IRs etc, there is too much high and lo end and I don't get that satisfying thick midrange sound.

    Also, what is it with modellers than brings fret buzz to the fore on clean sounds? It's like when you used to DI a guitar into a portastudio back in the early 90s. A clean sound on a good valve amp with the same guitar doesn't;t allow anywhere near as much fret buzz sound through.


    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 1reaction image Wisdom
  • JezWyndJezWynd Frets: 6021
    Why have a model when you can have the real thing.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 6reaction image Wisdom
Sign In or Register to comment.