Question regarding FX loop send and returns.

Evildurka

Ok potential epiphany moment and not sure if this has been covered previously. I have seen videos talking about plugging a guitar directly into the fx loop return of an amp bypassing the pre amp stage and giving a clean power amp. I have also seen videos and threads talking about 4 cable method for kit such as helix and pieces of kit like the fryette powersration for taking low power amps and bringing them up to 100w etc.

So my pondering this morning is this. If the fx loop in most generic terms is an insert point between pre-amp and power amp, if you have a dummy load on your amp and take the fx loop out and connect to the fx loop in of another amp would this effectively be plugging the pre-amp into a different power amp???

I have a combo i wish to use as a cab sometimes for my friedman runt 20 which has an inbuilt dummy load and was pondering options other than putting a longer cable on the speaker.

ICBM

Yes, but due to differences in the way FX loops are designed and the way preamps and power amps are voiced to go together in an amp, running one amp's preamp through another's power amp does not always work as well you would expect.

The best solution to your problem is probably still to get a speaker extension cable, but try it with the FX loop as well if you want - providing the 'preamp' amp can definitely run with no load. If you're not sure, get a shorting plug (a spare jack plug with the hot and shield connected together) and put that in the FX return, which will mute the power amp.

For what it's worth I once tried running the preamp of my Mesa DC-5 through the power amp of my Mesa Blue Angel - same FX loop design in both cases - to get what I thought would be 'the best of both worlds'... and it sounded *terrible*.

ecc83

Shameless spam! The Series One and most of the HT Blackstar range* have thought of this!

If you want to use an amp as a pre amp you don't even need a dummy load. Just make sure nothing is plugged into a speaker jack and the master pot is at zero.

To use as a PA, go into FX return but ensure there is a dummy jack (HP adaptor works famously) in the input jack.  Just to add to all this marvellous flexibility there are +4dBu and -10dBV FX levels.

*ICBM, next time you come affront one of these 'horrors' maybe you could use this trick to isolate where your dislike of the amps resides? (I am betting power amp but cannot post why).

Dave.

ICBM

ecc83 said:

Shameless spam! The Series One and most of the HT Blackstar range* have thought of this!

If you want to use an amp as a pre amp you don't even need a dummy load. Just make sure nothing is plugged into a speaker jack and the master pot is at zero.

To use as a PA, go into FX return but ensure there is a dummy jack (HP adaptor works famously) in the input jack.  Just to add to all this marvellous flexibility there are +4dBu and -10dBV FX levels.

*ICBM, next time you come affront one of these 'horrors' maybe you could use this trick to isolate where your dislike of the amps resides? (I am betting power amp but cannot post why).

I’ve tried it, and it’s both . If anything it’s more the preamp - the power section (through a different speaker than the stock ones) isn’t as bad - but I think the real problem is the combination of the two.

ecc83

"I’ve tried it, and it’s both . If anything it’s more the preamp - the power section (through a different speaker than the stock ones) isn’t as bad - but I think the real problem is the combination of the two."

Oh! &^%&$£! You awkward bugger!  

Dave.

ICBM

ecc83 said:

Oh! &^%&$£! You awkward bugger!

I think the *real* problem - as we've said before - is that the whole amp is quite deliberately and thoroughly designed to produce a sound and response I don't like .

That tight/dark/midrange thing, high gain/low background noise... even having the ISF control the wrong way round proves they just don't hear things the way I do, or want to.