Commissioning a new build custom guitar

jaymenon

I've been reading a few posts by the lucky owners of custom guitars (Feline, SVL etc) how beautifully their custom commissioned guitars have turned out.  And I am tempted, very tempted…

However there is this niggling thought - surely there's an element of confirmation bias involved, when you've spent the best part of £3000...

I'm sure these makers pay a lot of care and attention and that their instruments are wonderfully built.  Build quality, action, set up are objective parameters and can be rendered perfect.  

However...

How does one know how well an individual guitar is going to sound prior to construction. How those individual pieces of wood and other physical components interact sonically together is surely almost impossible to predict…?

And once a custom guitar is made, there's obviously no returning it.

paulnb57

IMHO You don't......I think you can get ball park, but once a Custom build is in your hands there is no guarantee you will like how it feels or sounds...

WezV

Yup, that’s the risk.

do your research, listen to the builders advice and it can be worth every penny.

richardhomer

How ‘custom’ are your requirements? The variety of guitars out there is greater that it’s ever been - so apart from ‘yeah, I had it made for me’ bragging rights - I don’t really understand the need to ‘go custom’.

I’ve told the story before - around 2000 I ordered a custom built Suhr. After months of waiting, when it arrived it was too heavy, acoustically dead and sounded very ordinary played through an amp. Yes it had the exact neck profile I’d asked for, had exactly the right hardware and finish - what it wasn’t was a convincing musical instrument. And therein lies the risk - you’re buying something which you can’t check out before you part with your cash.

stickyfiddle

It’s a cliche, but in my experience, it comes down to experience, mostly. I had a La Cabronita Tele made a few years ago, which came out sounding about 99% as expected. That really came about from a decision to take the regular La Cab template and push it further towards what Gretsch would do in the majority of specs, and make it sound more like a Jet in the process.

Ideally you need to to find a builder who is aligned to what you are looking for, in terms of style, spec, etc, and ideally you need to be very sure of what spec you want.

PhilKing

I have quite a lot of custom built guitars.  I started myself from Warmoth parts and graduated up to custom necks and then the full blown custom guitar.  I have played a lot of guitars through the years (I used to work in music retail in the 70's and have lived in the States since 1980), so I had a good idea of what I wanted and worked with someone I knew in Bradford originally.  He really didn't charge a lot for the work and so it gave me a good chance to try things (like an all walnut guitar with a flamed walnut neck with an ebony fingerboard). Once I got the bug, I spoke with other people (including @WezV and Jon @FelineGuitars) and got guitars from both of them.  With Jon, I was able to try a lot of his guitars back in 2005, when we both worked on the stand that Bare Knuckle and Jon had at LGS.  I also tried a lot of his guitars at a couple of other shows.  One thing I will say about working with a good luthier is that they know what they are doing and as long as you know what you want, then you will get pretty close.  I have a Feline Lion 20th Anniversary model that Jon built for me with a wraparound bridge, rather than the tailpiece/bridge that he had originally spec'd.  Speaking to him on why I wanted that and getting in early gave me one of my favourite guitars to play.  He will also work with you on the neck shape and some other tweaking.

With @WezV, I have managed to get some of my more radical ideas built, and most of them have come out really well.  I have a neck through John Birch style SG that I go to more often than my real 70's JB1.  He has made me a couple of Juniors that are also brilliant.  At the moment he has a couple of guitars on the go, plus one longer term project that is getting there.  The fanned fret Firebird he is building came from trying a fanned fret at his house and then just speaking another time about the Firebird not looking bad as fanned fret and it grew from there.  

I have several Bravewoods too.  A couple are based on original vintage Strats that I have, which I really don't take out too much now, because they got too valuable.  John copied the neck shape and he built the bodies to my preference.  

One thing I would say is that you need patience, the last thing you want to do is rush someone who is building something for you.  Getting a custom instrument does take time and there are sometimes things that come up that delay the builders.  

If you do go down the route, try to see if you can meet the luthier and play some of their instruments.  Have a talk about what you want and what you like in guitars that will held them with your preferences.  It will be worth it and you will get a unique instrument that will be what you were looking for.

Good luck if you decide to go with a custom build,

Handsome_Chris

@jaymenon ;, I shall give you one piece of advice based on bitter experience: go with a reputable luthier with a proven track record for delivery. Jon at @FelineGuitars is a great guy who makes the magic happen.  @Jaden will be returning soon to make some great things happen again.

I only offer this advice as I have been burnt to the tune for £1k for a guitar I never received.  I can live with that: a lot of people couldn't

An alternative that may work for you is buying a high end guitar that is already close to what you want, then modding it.

I hope that this helps.

darcym

Handsome_Chris said:

@jaymenon ;, I shall give you one piece of advice based on bitter experience: go with a reputable luthier with a proven track record for delivery. Jon at @FelineGuitars is a great guy who makes the magic happen.  @Jaden will be returning soon to make some great things happen again.

I only offer this advice as I have been burnt to the tune for £1k for a guitar I never received.  I can live with that: a lot of people couldn't

An alternative that may work for you is buying a high end guitar that is already close to what you want, then modding it.

I hope that this helps.

This is the best advice, I'm out just shy of £2k for a build from a well known and respected luthier who has many guitar builds and jobs outstanding with people - so really make sure you know the status and situation these guys are in and make sure the payment terms cover you realistically as best possible. 

FelineGuitars

darcym said:

Handsome_Chris said:

@jaymenon ;, I shall give you one piece of advice based on bitter experience: go with a reputable luthier with a proven track record for delivery. Jon at @FelineGuitars is a great guy who makes the magic happen.  @Jaden will be returning soon to make some great things happen again.

I only offer this advice as I have been burnt to the tune for £1k for a guitar I never received.  I can live with that: a lot of people couldn't

An alternative that may work for you is buying a high end guitar that is already close to what you want, then modding it.

I hope that this helps.

This is the best advice, I'm out just shy of £2k for a build from a well known and respected luthier who has many guitar builds and jobs outstanding with people - so really make sure you know the status and situation these guys are in and make sure the payment terms cover you realistically as best possible. 

I have strong theories as to why some of these new start-up /flavour of the month luthiers disappear, go bust or run away.

They base their plan on making just enough money to exist , pay the rent etc on the planned builds that they will do.

They often fail to plan for a job going wrong and having to start again, hold ups, sickness unforeseen hiccups>

So when something goes wrong they are living off the money from the next guitar that they haven't started yet rather than the one that they are building - a bit like a Ponzi scheme .

I on the other hand don't entirely rely upon custom builds to pay the rent and pay wages etc. I run a busy and solid repair shop that does a lot of (good) work and that pays it's way for the most part. The custom builds happen around all that .

So if there is a hiccup or a body or neck goes wrong , it is a disaster , but it doesn't derail my operation or put things in jeopardy. We might double down on the repairs etc for a week to play catch up financially but it won't stop us carrying on with the build even if we have to buy new timbers and start over.

I know we take way longer than some makers but we do always deliver the goods.

FelineGuitars

darcym said:

Handsome_Chris said:

@jaymenon ;, I shall give you one piece of advice based on bitter experience: go with a reputable luthier with a proven track record for delivery. Jon at @FelineGuitars is a great guy who makes the magic happen.  @Jaden will be returning soon to make some great things happen again.

I only offer this advice as I have been burnt to the tune for £1k for a guitar I never received.  I can live with that: a lot of people couldn't

An alternative that may work for you is buying a high end guitar that is already close to what you want, then modding it.

I hope that this helps.

This is the best advice, I'm out just shy of £2k for a build from a well known and respected luthier who has many guitar builds and jobs outstanding with people - so really make sure you know the status and situation these guys are in and make sure the payment terms cover you realistically as best possible. 

I have strong theories as to why some of these new start-up /flavour of the month luthiers disappear, go bust or run away.

They base their plan on making just enough money to exist , pay the rent etc on the planned builds that they will do.

They often fail to plan for a job going wrong and having to start again, hold ups, sickness unforeseen hiccups>

So when something goes wrong they are living off the money from the next guitar that they haven't started yet rather than the one that they are building - a bit like a Ponzi scheme .

I on the other hand don't entirely rely upon custom builds to pay the rent and pay wages etc. I run a busy and solid repair shop that does a lot of (good) work and that pays it's way for the most part. The custom builds happen around all that .

So if there is a hiccup or a body or neck goes wrong , it is a disaster , but it doesn't derail my operation or put things in jeopardy. We might double down on the repairs etc for a week to play catch up financially but it won't stop us carrying on with the build even if we have to buy new timbers and start over.

I know we take way longer than some makers but we do always deliver the goods.

p90fool

richardhomer said:

How ‘custom’ are your requirements? The variety of guitars out there is greater that it’s ever been - so apart from ‘yeah, I had it made for me’ bragging rights - I don’t really understand the need to ‘go custom’.

I’ve told the story before - around 2000 I ordered a custom built Suhr. After months of waiting, when it arrived it was too heavy, acoustically dead and sounded very ordinary played through an amp. Yes it had the exact neck profile I’d asked for, had exactly the right hardware and finish - what it wasn’t was a convincing musical instrument. And therein lies the risk - you’re buying something which you can’t check out before you part with your cash.

This, plus I'd imagine that only a tiny fraction of people who've had the same experience actually admit it, to themselves or anyone else. 

darcym

FelineGuitars said:

darcym said:

Handsome_Chris said:

@jaymenon ;, I shall give you one piece of advice based on bitter experience: go with a reputable luthier with a proven track record for delivery. Jon at @FelineGuitars is a great guy who makes the magic happen.  @Jaden will be returning soon to make some great things happen again.

I only offer this advice as I have been burnt to the tune for £1k for a guitar I never received.  I can live with that: a lot of people couldn't

An alternative that may work for you is buying a high end guitar that is already close to what you want, then modding it.

I hope that this helps.

This is the best advice, I'm out just shy of £2k for a build from a well known and respected luthier who has many guitar builds and jobs outstanding with people - so really make sure you know the status and situation these guys are in and make sure the payment terms cover you realistically as best possible. 

I have strong theories as to why some of these new start-up /flavour of the month luthiers disappear, go bust or run away.

They base their plan on making just enough money to exist , pay the rent etc on the planned builds that they will do.

They often fail to plan for a job going wrong and having to start again, hold ups, sickness unforeseen hiccups>

So when something goes wrong they are living off the money from the next guitar that they haven't started yet rather than the one that they are building - a bit like a Ponzi scheme .

I on the other hand don't entirely rely upon custom builds to pay the rent and pay wages etc. I run a busy and solid repair shop that does a lot of (good) work and that pays it's way for the most part. The custom builds happen around all that .

So if there is a hiccup or a body or neck goes wrong , it is a disaster , but it doesn't derail my operation or put things in jeopardy. We might double down on the repairs etc for a week to play catch up financially but it won't stop us carrying on with the build even if we have to buy new timbers and start over.

I know we take way longer than some makers but we do always deliver the goods.

This builder has a lot of repair, restore and fix work as well as custom builds of his "specialty" guitar he appears to have just got himself into a jam and run away.

ThorpyFX

darcym said:

FelineGuitars said:

darcym said:

Handsome_Chris said:

@jaymenon , I shall give you one piece of advice based on bitter experience: go with a reputable luthier with a proven track record for delivery. Jon at @FelineGuitars is a great guy who makes the magic happen.  @Jaden will be returning soon to make some great things happen again.

I only offer this advice as I have been burnt to the tune for £1k for a guitar I never received.  I can live with that: a lot of people couldn't

An alternative that may work for you is buying a high end guitar that is already close to what you want, then modding it.

I hope that this helps.

This is the best advice, I'm out just shy of £2k for a build from a well known and respected luthier who has many guitar builds and jobs outstanding with people - so really make sure you know the status and situation these guys are in and make sure the payment terms cover you realistically as best possible. 

I have strong theories as to why some of these new start-up /flavour of the month luthiers disappear, go bust or run away.

They base their plan on making just enough money to exist , pay the rent etc on the planned builds that they will do.

They often fail to plan for a job going wrong and having to start again, hold ups, sickness unforeseen hiccups>

So when something goes wrong they are living off the money from the next guitar that they haven't started yet rather than the one that they are building - a bit like a Ponzi scheme .

I on the other hand don't entirely rely upon custom builds to pay the rent and pay wages etc. I run a busy and solid repair shop that does a lot of (good) work and that pays it's way for the most part. The custom builds happen around all that .

So if there is a hiccup or a body or neck goes wrong , it is a disaster , but it doesn't derail my operation or put things in jeopardy. We might double down on the repairs etc for a week to play catch up financially but it won't stop us carrying on with the build even if we have to buy new timbers and start over.

I know we take way longer than some makers but we do always deliver the goods.

This builder has a lot of repair, restore and fix work as well as custom builds of his "specialty" guitar he appears to have just got himself into a jam and run away.

how far can he run?....... I'd probably just turn up at his place, have a convo and mention the smalls claim court. this sort of thing wrankles me somewhat.

Blueingreen

p90fool said:

richardhomer said:

How ‘custom’ are your requirements? The variety of guitars out there is greater that it’s ever been - so apart from ‘yeah, I had it made for me’ bragging rights - I don’t really understand the need to ‘go custom’.

I’ve told the story before - around 2000 I ordered a custom built Suhr. After months of waiting, when it arrived it was too heavy, acoustically dead and sounded very ordinary played through an amp. Yes it had the exact neck profile I’d asked for, had exactly the right hardware and finish - what it wasn’t was a convincing musical instrument. And therein lies the risk - you’re buying something which you can’t check out before you part with your cash.

This, plus I'd imagine that only a tiny fraction of people who've had the same experience actually admit it, to themselves or anyone else. 

That would be my suspicion too. It's like holidays, after all the anticipation and cost few people are willing to admit that the hours they spent at the airport, the traffic noise outside the hotel,  the disappointing food and the locals' cynical attitude to tourists turned it into an expensive experience they'd prefer to forget.  It's irrational, but you feel you've been a fool and who wants to advertise that?

I'm often tempted by a custom build myself, mainly because my preferences, despite being mainstream on a spec by spec basis, rarely come together on the same guitar.  But there's always that fear that you spend £3K or more on something that doesn't work out the way you expected, and you're looking at something you'll struggle to sell for a fraction of the cost. 

Obviously I intend no disrespect to individual builders: I've no doubt most are talented people trying to make an honest living in a difficult profession. 

peteri

I think custom build should not be the first interaction with a luthier.

For example, I have three Felines - they're all wonderful, all 'off the shelf' (although one has a changed bridge and soon to be changed switch at my request).

I feel during this process I've got to understand what they do, what I like and what I don't - and have a form of relationship with Jon (he denies it but I can see he feels the connection too )

I don't need them to make me a custom guitar, but I'm really comfortable they could kill it if I asked them to.

The idea of picking up a phone to a stranger - no thanks.

Doesn't have to be a complete guitar, but maybe get them to do a setup and see what comes back etc.

goldtop

I think you've also got to understand yourself a bit.

I had a guitar custom-made that's similar to my #1 - a LP Standard DC. I specced all the extra cosmetic stuff I really lusted after, that the #1 was missing: colour, wood figure, pickups, odd little spec details. The result is a stunning and toneful guitar, but ... I almost never play it!   It's just far too nice, so it always gets put away in the case after 10 minutes, and I just go back to playing the DC.

Philly_Q

I suspect the good guitar builders are better than we realise at picking out good pieces of timber and combining them with the right parts and pickups - so they do have a pretty good idea of how the guitar's going to sound, despite the vagaries of building something out of wood.

I think the bigger problem is probably with the customer, not knowing what he or she really wants, or how to achieve it.  Of course a good builder will talk it through, point out things they think will be counter-productive.  But I suspect if I ever went for a unique custom build it would be the features I insisted on which might ultimately fuck it up and lead to disappointment.

The nearest I've actually come to a custom build is a Fender Custom Shop order.  In that case, there are lots of variables, but within a (very) familiar set of parameters so it's less likely to go totally wrong.  In retrospect there are one or two features I might've changed, but I'm pretty happy how it turned out.

FelineGuitars

If you look at the guitar that you bought and over time has become your number one favourite, it is likely that there was a bit of getting used to each other and discovering what it did best and adapting your style to let the partnership of player and guitar be the best it can. Heck - you may have even undergone a stylistic change because of a guitar that you bought requiring a slightly different approach to get the best from it.

This is also going to be true if you order a guitar. I mean hopefully it is going to tick all the boxes for you based on your wishes at time of ordering, but there may be a slight getting used to it phase and a small amount of adaptation.

It is most likely like getting a new car that you have lusted after and having to get used to the controls and the bite point of the clutch pedal etc. A good driver will suss out the way to get the best from his new ride's characteristics and soon become completely at home. 

clarkefan

If I can't play it first, and if I'm not first confident I can resell it without getting reamed, then I am out.

Not a comment on any particular builder, it's my inate rules.

I can't afford to take a bath on price, that's a reality for a lot of people.  I try to learn from other people's mistakes, harsh but true.

Last thing, I've told the story before, I was in the room when two guys brought their new guitars.  One was an expensive Callaham Strat, the other was a partsocastor, which (with the same player) ate the Callaham for breakfast sound - wise.

Danielsguitars

I've only just gone full time, it's taken quite a few years of working part time in a crap job and running the guitars along side, this is after spending 4 yrs at college learning how to make the things 
I didn't just wake up and say oh I fancy making guitars

I wanted enough money to get me through the first year with no rent worries etc, I don't need to earn much so that's ok, I also have enough work to get me through maybe 18 to 24 months without any extra work and I don't really do repair work, I might do some finishing for people 

This gives me the best chance to see if this is sustainable, there are other ways to make it work too, by that i mean i'll do other things just not necessarily guitar making plus I'm trying to avoid getting a normal job at any cost,  I'll see how it goes over the next year 

I do think robbing Peter to pay Paul is the best way to fail imo

Winny_Pooh

goldtop said:

I think you've also got to understand yourself a bit.

I had a guitar custom-made that's similar to my #1 - a LP Standard DC. I specced all the extra cosmetic stuff I really lusted after, that the #1 was missing: colour, wood figure, pickups, odd little spec details. The result is a stunning and toneful guitar, but ... I almost never play it!   It's just far too nice, so it always gets put away in the case after 10 minutes, and I just go back to playing the DC.

This is just silly, play it FFS.