The difference between America and Canada

ICBM

This says a lot.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43876772

Tragic that ten people died, but there is at least the possibility of finding out why now.


(Now in the right section.)

Phil_aka_Pip

Apart from a few degrees latitude? Not being trigger-happy arseholes?

Heartfeltdawn

ICBM said:

This says a lot.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43876772

Tragic that ten people died, but there is at least the possibility of finding out why now.

I know the path the assailant took as I lived very close to it for three years. Seeing the news reports last night was a very sad experience as seeing Toronto always makes me think of my ex wife but then it was coupled to my thoughts of the city itself. For much of those three years out there, I was working in restaurants. I'd finish late (late in TO means 1-2am) and walk back through some areas that weren't rich and wealthy to my place. I got to know the pimps and the working girls on our block and it was always pretty friendly. I can honestly say that in three years I never saw the sort of drunken violence I saw out here. It is a very different vibe to London or Manchester. 

The cops in Toronto do have some less than beautiful history. Take this article from the Toronto Star earlier this month, an article which also demonstrates how different Toronto is to most of the UK. 

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/04/06/can-torontos-police-force-reconcile-its-relationship-with-the-citys-queer-communities.html ;

So for an event like this to occur... it's going to hit home very hard with a lot of the population. For the cops, it's demonstrative of how they are. Don't get me wrong, I've seen some cops be hard with drunks out there but it's not like the Americans. 

ICBM

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Apart from a few degrees latitude? Not being trigger-happy arseholes?

A few degrees in latitude but a world away in attitude to the use of deadly force.

The thing I find most disturbing about the American reactions in that article are the university academics, one who thought that the officer had a "duty" to kill the suspect if he thought he had a gun, and another who although a bit more objective, suggested the officer might have "frozen", which is ridiculous given that he successfully arrested the suspect.

If that's the way the professors in charge of educating criminal justice students think about resolving a conflict situation, it's not really any wonder the police shoot so many innocent and unarmed people in the USA.

usedtobe

From the little I’ve seen, in videos, there’s way too many American cops not fit to do the job. Panicky, too quick to empty their gun into some young guy, who’s being a bit of a dick, or whatever..

boogieman

usedtobe said:

From the little I’ve seen, in videos, there’s way too many American cops not fit to do the job. Panicky, too quick to empty their gun into some young guy, who’s being a bit of a dick, or whatever..

Or the other extreme where the security guard at the recent school massacre gets massively and publicly criticised by Trump for not taking on a guy with an automatic weapon. 

impmann

boogieman said:

usedtobe said:

From the little I’ve seen, in videos, there’s way too many American cops not fit to do the job. Panicky, too quick to empty their gun into some young guy, who’s being a bit of a dick, or whatever..

Or the other extreme where the security guard at the recent school massacre gets massively and publicly criticised by Trump for not taking on a guy with an automatic weapon. 

Trump was even more of a cunt over that than usual... even claiming he would have taken the guy on. HIGHLY doubtful on many levels, most pertinent being that he's never been in such a situation as the money has always cushioned him from being put in such a situation.

I say fair play to the Candian cops on that one - especially as there are reports of the guy shouting "kill me". So by not doing so, he doesn't get what he wanted and the families get closure on WHY this lunatic did this.

57Deluxe

https://www.myamericanmarket.com/414-large_default/canada-dry-ginger-ale.jpg
https://www.pj.dk/files/productimages/medium/39084.jpg

Kilgore

I 'm not sure how much blame we can attribute to US cops who appear to shoot first, ask questions later.

 They operate in a society in which some of their fellow citizens gun down dozens at a time. A great many have conceal carry, legally or otherwise. Unlike other countries US cops are routinely shot dead. 

In that kind of culture negotiation and de escalation must be difficult.

prowla

Canada is in America.

goldtop

Canada is USA Lite.

boogieman

goldtop said:

Canada is USA Better. 

  

jdgm

ICBM said:

The thing I find most disturbing about the American reactions in that article are the university academics, one who thought that the officer had a "duty" to kill the suspect if he thought he had a gun, and another who although a bit more objective, suggested the officer might have "frozen", which is ridiculous given that he successfully arrested the suspect.

If that's the way the professors in charge of educating criminal justice students think about resolving a conflict situation, it's not really any wonder the police shoot so many innocent and unarmed people in the USA.

Very much agree with this, I found those comments astonishing.
The best thing I read said something like "you know that police are NOT meant to be judge, jury and executioner, right?"
Also agree that USA cops are 'routinely shot dead' so in more danger and must be paranoid but there have been some really stupid killings recently. The country is awash with millions of guns and no-one wants to tackle that.
Gun laws in Australia were made incredibly strict after the mass murder in Tasmania and I thought that was a good and bold move.
You hear this 'guns don't kill, people kill' stuff in USA (kid takes it out of the mother's handbag, "what does this do?" and it goes off) but guns DO kill, that's what they're bloody made to do! Accidentally or not, thousands of times a year.

scrumhalf

Peter Ustonov said that Canada was like America if it was run by the Swiss.

Heartfeltdawn

Kilgore said:

I 'm not sure how much blame we can attribute to US cops who appear to shoot first, ask questions later.

 They operate in a society in which some of their fellow citizens gun down dozens at a time. A great many have conceal carry, legally or otherwise. Unlike other countries US cops are routinely shot dead. 

In that kind of culture negotiation and de escalation must be difficult.

2017 was the second lowest of the last 50 years in terms of officer mortality. 143 officers killed, 66 shot and killed. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/12/28/number-officers-killed-2017-hits-nearly-50-year-low/984477001/

Compare that to the number killed by police officers depending on the study method used and with the number given in the above link:

https://psmag.com/social-justice/how-many-people-are-killed-by-police-in-the-united-states

So the current spotlight on American police situation response isn't coming against a rising level of officer mortality. 

If you didn't have conceal carry, legal or otherwise, and such a pro-gun society, then you wouldn't get those nervous cops. So let's all fucking applaud the bullshit gun lobby for it's largest monthly donations haul for 15 years. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43884698

fandango

boogieman said:

goldtop said:

Canada is USA Better. 

  

Well ... it would be, if the Canadians hadn’t voted for Mr Professional Virtue Signaller as PM. Embarassing.

Heartfeltdawn

fandango said:

boogieman said:

goldtop said:

Canada is USA Better. 

  

Well ... it would be, if the Canadians hadn’t voted for Mr Professional Virtue Signaller as PM. Embarassing.

Pathetic (you, not him). 

BigBearKris

I love Canada.

Guns though? In US it's a whole different industry around it. They will never get rid of them - sad but true.

Snap

Not sure you can compare the two places really. Canada probably has more in common with the UK and Europe than the US, on many levels/

The USA is a very odd country full stop, and it is full of contradictions. Lots of very uptight self obsessed people too.

Heartfeltdawn

Snap said:

Not sure you can compare the two places really. Canada probably has more in common with the UK and Europe than the US, on many levels/

The USA is a very odd country full stop, and it is full of contradictions. Lots of very uptight self obsessed people too.

I'd go the other way based on my three years out in Toronto and wandering. Toronto itself is very similar to London in terms of housing, immigrant population, diversity, politics, but within the same province you find things get conservative very quickly. Travel into Alberta and you're in a place that was Conservative run from 1971 to 2015. Alberta would find a comrade in Alaska in terms of voting, population, politics, and economy. 

When you look at a list of Canadian Prime Ministers, the list is a little tilted to the liberal side. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Prime_Ministers_of_Canada

But liberal in Canada still has a lot of 'conservative in the UK' tendencies. For example, Jean Chretien was a liberal PM over there and his methods in Canada resonated with David Cameron over here when he got into Downing Street. Socially Canadian liberals are truly liberal but economically it falls more to the Conservative side of things when it comes to trade.