Incandescent bulbs: will be banned from sale in the UK from September 2018

ICBM

Philtre said:

Our house will continue to use Incandescent bulbs. I value my eyesight.

LEDs can produce a brighter, clearer light than an incandescent while also using less power. If you value your eyesight you might be better to try some.

Philly_Q said:

I don't even realise there were such things as LED bulbs (for normal domestic light fittings) until yesterday. 

I was in Sainsburys and went to the light bubs section, expecting to see the tube things (CFL?) and all they had were LEDs.  It really threw me, I was thinking should I buy these?  Are they energy efficient?  Will they blow up after 5 minutes?  I was so perplexed I almost resorted to buying incandescents. 

It was like the world had left me behind, as if I'd suddenly turned into my dad....

It's unfortunate that the CFLs were so shit, because they really have caused a lot of people to write off LED bulbs without even trying them. Even the first LEDs were a little 'cold' looking, but the current generation are virtually indistinguishable from incandescent while using literally a tenth of the energy - less than half that of even a CFL.

They also don't fail at anything like the rate of CFL let alone incandescent, don't use the sort of pollutive chemicals in their manufacture that CFLs do, can be dimmable (if you get the right type), and run much cooler so fittings will also last longer, even if you increase the equivalent brightness.

Bridgehouse

Philly_Q said:

ICBM said:

Why not just get some current generation LED bulbs? Everyone I've come across who has a dislike of "eco" bulbs has only ever tried the first generation of them (CFL), which were shit. Current LEDs are very nearly indistinguishable from incandescent in terms of light quality - but use a tenth of the electricity and last far longer. The low power usage also means that if you want, you can significantly increase the brightness of your light fittings and still have them run cooler - for example a 13W LED is brighter than an old 100W incandescent, but is perfectly safe in a 40W-max fitting.

I don't even realise there were such things as LED bulbs (for normal domestic light fittings) until yesterday. 

I was in Sainsburys and went to the light bubs section, expecting to see the tube things (CFL?) and all they had were LEDs.  It really threw me, I was thinking should I buy these?  Are they energy efficient?  Will they blow up after 5 minutes?  I was so perplexed I almost resorted to buying incandescents. 

It was like the world had left me behind, as if I'd suddenly turned into my dad....

I SAID NICE HAM, GRANDAD

Sporky

ICBM said:

Philtre said:

Our house will continue to use Incandescent bulbs. I value my eyesight.

LEDs can produce a brighter, clearer light than an incandescent while also using less power. If you value your eyesight you might be better to try some.

They probably still ride horses to work. 

Philtre

I have tried LED bulbs. Compared to incandescent, they're shit.

Phil_aka_Pip

Philtre said:

I have tried LED bulbs. Compared to incandescent, they're shit.

And there was me thinking I was the luddite

exocet

Philtre said:

I have tried LED bulbs. Compared to incandescent, they're shit.

I disagree but like everything there is a wide range in quality levels so you may just have been unlucky. Certainly the 100 watt equivalent lamps are a fairly recent innovation (in terms of availability at a reasonable price point). 
The CFL (curly type lamp) was certainly shit at the start and never really improved, I tried a few and hated everything about them. I've now replaced all of the lights in my house and I'm pretty happy with them. My only concern is that there is still wide spread of quality out there and you can waste money buying something that isn't satisfactory. I've mainly had issues with lifespan...some of the GU10 type that I've fitted have had a very short life...less than 18 months but I've got others that are used daily and are Well over 3 years old.

ThePrettyDamned

Philtre said:

I have tried LED bulbs. Compared to incandescent, they're shit.

You've tried shit LED bulbs. 

Philtre

I'm grumpy today, so most things are shit.

ThePrettyDamned

Philtre said:

I'm grumpy today, so most things are shit.

Me too.

I have a shit LED bulb too. I wrote them off, then my dad got a bunch of more expensive ones and they cast a nice warm light. They need diffusing, but then any bulb does because it's a small light source. 

Fretwired

ICBM said:

Presumably the people who are against LED bulbs don't realise how much of our power generation capacity is used for lighting - and that if all incandescents were replaced with LED, it would reduce the total energy demand by as much as 10%.

And the reason it has to be legislated for is because otherwise some people just go on believing that the old ways are the best, even when they're not...

Leaded petrol and coal-burning open fires had people who believed that the replacements "just weren't as good" too, but we're all better off without them.

But we were told by government that diesel was good. We went and bought diesels and now they are no good and there are calls to ban them, even from trucks.

And there are now health warnings about LED street lights .. what should we believe?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ed-streetlight-bright-sleep-damage-eyesight-public-health-england-a8285981.html


The dark side of LED lighting ...

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/led-lightbulb-concerns/#

Philly_Q

ICBM said:

It's unfortunate that the CFLs were so shit, because they really have caused a lot of people to write off LED bulbs without even trying them. Even the first LEDs were a little 'cold' looking, but the current generation are virtually indistinguishable from incandescent while using literally a tenth of the energy - less than half that of even a CFL.

They also don't fail at anything like the rate of CFL let alone incandescent, don't use the sort of pollutive chemicals in their manufacture that CFLs do, can be dimmable (if you get the right type), and run much cooler so fittings will also last longer, even if you increase the equivalent brightness.

I've never really objected to CFLs, although most people seem to hate them.  Yes they take a while to brighten up and you do get the odd dud which fails really quickly, but generally they last bloody ages.

Hence my surprise at discovering evolution has left them behind since the last time I bought one!

exocet

Philly_Q said:

ICBM said:

It's unfortunate that the CFLs were so shit, because they really have caused a lot of people to write off LED bulbs without even trying them. Even the first LEDs were a little 'cold' looking, but the current generation are virtually indistinguishable from incandescent while using literally a tenth of the energy - less than half that of even a CFL.

They also don't fail at anything like the rate of CFL let alone incandescent, don't use the sort of pollutive chemicals in their manufacture that CFLs do, can be dimmable (if you get the right type), and run much cooler so fittings will also last longer, even if you increase the equivalent brightness.

I've never really objected to CFLs, although most people seem to hate them.  Yes they take a while to brighten up and you do get the odd dud which fails really quickly, but generally they last bloody ages.

Hence my surprise at discovering evolution has left them behind since the last time I bought one!

But when you've had close to 100 years of electric light meaning "instant on", the CFL type was epic fail. Many of the ones that I had could take minutes to reach full brightness (got worse the older they were). Even when they were at full brightness, the colour temp was all wrong...made me feel ill.

That said, I'm sure that there are "skeletons in the cupboard" about LED lighting e.g. the environmental impact of manufacturing and disposal, but right now it feels like a step in the right direction.

ICBM

Fretwired said:

The dark side of LED lighting ...

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/led-lightbulb-concerns/#

How many LED bulbs would you have to eat before you get arsenic poisoning?



Yes, I know they contain a small quantity of toxic materials. But... are you *really* worried? There is virtually no risk of them getting out - LED bulbs are actually quite hard to break, unlike CFLs - and even if they do, the material is not a gas, unlike mercury vapour, so it will be pretty difficult to ingest unless you eat it.

I'm think most people's sleep patterns are probably more disrupted by their smartphones than street lighting too...

There are sensible concerns, and then there are just excuses to avoid getting rid of a dinosaur technology that is unbelievably wasteful in relation to its benefit... about 98% of the energy used by an incandescent bulb comes out as heat.

Fretwired

ICBM said:

Fretwired said:

The dark side of LED lighting ...

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/led-lightbulb-concerns/#

How many LED bulbs would you have to eat before you get arsenic poisoning?



Yes, I know they contain a small quantity of toxic materials. But... are you *really* worried? There is virtually no risk of them getting out - LED bulbs are actually quite hard to break, unlike CFLs - and even if they do, the material is not a gas, unlike mercury vapour, so it will be pretty difficult to ingest unless you eat it.

I'm think most people's sleep patterns are probably more disrupted by their smartphones than street lighting too...

There are sensible concerns, and then there are just excuses to avoid getting rid of a dinosaur technology that is unbelievably wasteful in relation to its benefit... about 98% of the energy used by an incandescent bulb comes out as heat.

Got any proper scientific research to back that up .. ;-)

WezV

What am I going to use in my heat lamp?

Hattigol

Is this the same LED that used to be in petrol when we were kids?

I'm 99.65% sure that this is all political correctness/health and safety gone mad/Brexit-related.

goldtop

I'm rather more annoyed that LEDs are being used in impossible-to-repair light fittings. Buy your £200 super-clever Philips hue lamp, fitting and when the LED goes, you are forced to throw the whole thing away. Even if you've got SMT soldering skills, the fitting is glued/sealed. Same for a lot of the spendy/designery LED pendant and table lamps.

Add in the fitting's embodied energy and transport energy used to get it to Next/John Lewis... if such LED lamps are greener than the incandescent lamp, I'm a banana.

Sporky

So don't buy the ones with lamps you can't replace.

Though with typical LED lifespans around 20-30,000 hours they do last quite a long time. 13 years of four hours a day .. 26 years of two hours a day. 

ICBM

Fretwired said:

Got any proper scientific research to back that up .. ;-)

No. Teenage children .

goldtop said:

I'm rather more annoyed that LEDs are being used in impossible-to-repair light fittings. Buy your £200 super-clever Philips hue lamp, fitting and when the LED goes, you are forced to throw the whole thing away. Even if you've got SMT soldering skills, the fitting is glued/sealed.

That's true. I got a couple of nice under-cupboard LED lights for my kitchen recently, to replace the nasty fluorescents that you can't seem to find bulbs for now, and was a bit niggled to discover - after I got them home - that the light element is not replaceable.

goldtop said:

Add in the fitting's embodied energy and transport energy used to get it to Next/John Lewis... if such LED lamps are greener than the incandescent lamp, I'm a banana.

They still might be, if you look at the number of incandescent bulbs you would need to replace in the lifetime of the LED fitting, and the transport costs of *those* (they're probably made in China too) as well.

stickyfiddle

WezV said:

What am I going to use in my heat lamp?

You could try good ol' fossil fuels

I'm all for LEDs. The only thing I haven't solved yet is finding a GU10-style LED that doesn't buzz when dimmed. One on its own isn't too bad but we have 9 in one room and it's annoying.