Going back to an old-fashioned all analogue board after running a Helix for the past 2 years

sweepy

I use the Fx8 plus pedals into 2 valve combos, doesn't stop me lusting after an Axe Fx3 though 


https://i.imgur.com/eAD20Vz.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/KFFrVZf.jpg

revsorg

I'd love to hear some of the music you make through that board @sweepy ;

Teetonetal

Lebarque said:

 OK, here's where I'm at: I a/b'd my vibe, trem, wah, chorus, reverb and delay (I use amp dirt mainly) with the HX effects and my pedals were clearly better. That's not too say that I wasn't impressed with the Helix, but the quality of sound didn't quite match up and inspire me to play and create, like my pedals do. I freely admit that I am spoilt with some really good pedals and amp though. I guess it comes down to priorities. If you are prepared to accept a level of tone for the convenience of the Helix, it's perfect. If, like me, you're willing to accept tap dancing and cables for the ultimate tone, premium pedals are still the way forward at the current time. Give it another few years and I'm sure Line 6 will catch up, but they're not there yet.

Another thing that bothered me was the dry through signal on the HX effects. It was bright and brash, not like a good buffer in a pedal chain.

See, the real issue with this is that helix offers someone's version of the pedal, that they hear. Not your ideal sound.

Pedals ought to trump helix, simply as you ought to have bought the pedals perfect to you. Some people go through stacks of pedals to find the one and will vigorously declare it's superiority over the others. Yet loads of people will disagree.

In terms of fx, helix cannot offer a version of every pedal that everyone will think is "better". Just like real pedals all it does is offer options and variations.

I find the sounds for the most part as good as any pedal I've owned, though I still have a few faves I run in its loops. However the range of sound it offers me vastly eclipses any pedalboard I've had. More or less unlimited sonic inspiration. I haven't bought a pedsl since Oct 2017 and slowly my collection has dwindled as Helix takes over.

I don't agree that helix is accepting 2nd best for convenience. It sounds great in its own right and fits my use perfectly.

Jonathanthomas83

Wazmeister said:

I did though, have a brief yearning for a Kemper tonight as a back-up and second amp.

Hmmm....

Best gear purchase I've made in a long, long time!

Heartfeltdawn

Lebarque said:

Snapshots? The ability to change a sound without a pause? WOW! :0)

Look, I'm not trying to pick a fight. Like the chap said above, if digital jiggery pokery floats your boat and gets the tone you want, it's all good. My point is that if you sit down and compare the quality of tone of eg. a Mojovibe with the vibe on the Helix, there is a marked difference.

There is a difference of tone, yes. But referring to it as a "quality of tone" suggests an empirical scale for tone quality which is obviously not true. A Mojovibe tone is no better than a Helix vibe tone in exactly the same way that a Telecaster tone is not "better" than a Les Paul tone. That Mojovibe tone might sound warmer, fuller, whatever the descriptor, but dropping it down into the 'better' category outright is just daft. 

meltedbuzzbox

I do find it interesting how lynched you get on this forum by offering a negative opinion on the helix. 

althy

the mods are just not its strength. what i really dislike the unit adds a weird top end thing that i find in evry line 6 product very noticeable with the dry through on super clean. at that point i get that it's a statement by the brand on what they believe sounds good and that's cool. completely disagree though

english_bob

meltedbuzzbox said:

I do find it interesting how lynched you get on this forum by offering a negative opinion on the helix. 

In fairness, yer man walked in to a thread about the Helix specifically to shit on it.

digitalscream

meltedbuzzbox said:

I do find it interesting how lynched you get on this forum by offering a negative opinion on the helix. 

Did I miss the lynching? Damn.

Seriously, though...this is just people disagreeing. As is normal on a discussion forum.

mr-mac

Danny1969 said:

I did a gig on Friday as a guest guitarist in a Thin Lizzy trib (band I was in a couple of years ago) The guy who replaced me (superb guitarist) was using a Helix into a PA speaker. I was using a little 15 watt Laney thing someone lent me. I watched him soundcheck and good as a sound as it was it sounded more absent from the room than my basic amp tone if that makes any sense ... it's not that he was using reverb or delay or even that it was duller sound .......... just sounded " less in your face" than mine. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just an observation as that's the first chance I've had to study one being used live. If I'm honest for that application....playing Lizzy tunes originally recorded on old Marshalls I preferred the sound of the Laney. 

I have used the Helix indoors though and was well impressed with the basic Plexi tones and the ease of use.  

Could just be way he had it set up.  Tbh a lot of gsp users that go straight to pa use the global eq to tune it to each venue if needed as every venue sounds different.

mr-mac

english_bob said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

I do find it interesting how lynched you get on this forum by offering a negative opinion on the helix. 

In fairness, yer man walked in to a thread about the Helix specifically to shit on it.

We'll tbh it wasn't about helix it was about going back to pedal board and the board v the helix so surely both sides of argument are valid in this discussion

John_A

mr-mac said:

english_bob said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

I do find it interesting how lynched you get on this forum by offering a negative opinion on the helix. 

In fairness, yer man walked in to a thread about the Helix specifically to shit on it.

We'll tbh it wasn't about helix it was about going back to pedal board and the board v the helix so surely both sides of argument are valid in this discussion

Yes both valid and your -ve comments about the Helix are balanced with other peoples +ve comments, wouldnt be much of a discussion if we all agreed.

Think you're wrong though

Majorscale

OK Helix users I am intrigued by how you use it live. Here's what I'm interested in finding out... what's the best way of using it going straight to a PA (no amp, no FRFR, no stage monitor) and using IEMs as a monitor for the whole band mix. Currently I don't own either IEMs or a Helix, so starting from zero, what do you recommend equipment-wise and the best way to set it up?

John_A

Majorscale said:

OK Helix users I am intrigued by how you use it live. Here's what I'm interested in finding out... what's the best way of using it going straight to a PA (no amp, no FRFR, no stage monitor) and using IEMs as a monitor for the whole band mix. Currently I don't own either IEMs or a Helix, so starting from zero, what do you recommend equipment-wise and the best way to set it up?

All you need is a Helix and an XLR lead to plug in to the desk. If the whole band are using IEM's you need a desk with multiple monitor sends (I use a Behringer XR16) and a set of IEM's each - simple as that

We do pretty much that except we have wedges rather than IEM's, I get more guitar, the singer gets more vox etc

peteri

I had a G2, the required number of Strymon pedals (3), Wampler, Klon, Origin Compressor etc.

Also had a mini pedal board with another Strymon, Phase 95 etc.

Got a Helix and then the AX8 and sold the lot.

I found the opposite to be true, I got a cleaner more enjoyable sound out of the Fractal, and it weighs a hell of a lot less!

I still occasionally think about having a small board and amp for fun - then I remind myself that for 6 months my superb Carr Skylark was never turned on, and is now being used by someone who wanted it.

I agree with the OP, pedals are fun - and I loved collecting and trading them, and yes it's nice to be able to bend down and tweak.

Now I concentrate much more on playing, learning songs, buying guitars.

I do think that you need to be careful with the modelling stuff because the temptation is you set the values where you never would in the real world. Last night I realised  I was running a BF Princeton almost flat out, dropping the master volume back made it more alive - I would never have done that with the real amp

gibsongretschfan

Lebarque said:

 OK, here's where I'm at: I a/b'd my vibe, trem, wah, chorus, reverb and delay (I use amp dirt mainly) with the HX effects and my pedals were clearly better. That's not too say that I wasn't impressed with the Helix, but the quality of sound didn't quite match up and inspire me to play and create, like my pedals do. I freely admit that I am spoilt with some really good pedals and amp though. I guess it comes down to priorities. If you are prepared to accept a level of tone for the convenience of the Helix, it's perfect. If, like me, you're willing to accept tap dancing and cables for the ultimate tone, premium pedals are still the way forward at the current time. Give it another few years and I'm sure Line 6 will catch up, but they're not there yet.

Another thing that bothered me was the dry through signal on the HX effects. It was bright and brash, not like a good buffer in a pedal chain.

If you are getting a bright and brash through signal with HX then you are doing something very wrong

gibsongretschfan

Majorscale said:

OK Helix users I am intrigued by how you use it live. Here's what I'm interested in finding out... what's the best way of using it going straight to a PA (no amp, no FRFR, no stage monitor) and using IEMs as a monitor for the whole band mix. Currently I don't own either IEMs or a Helix, so starting from zero, what do you recommend equipment-wise and the best way to set it up?

For live I run Helix with a couple of analog dirt pedals into a clean valve amp for onstage monitoring. I also have a second output with the Soldano clean model going into a Celestine v30 IR for FOH.

robinbowes

meltedbuzzbox said:

I do find it interesting how lynched you get on this forum by offering a negative opinion on the helix. 

I see no lynching, just a healthy discussion.

I doubt very much that I could get the same in-room sound from the Helix as I can from my vintage Fender amp in parallel to my Vibratone - it sounds simply divine. However, it's huge, difficult to mic up, impractical for live use, etc. And I'm sure I can get very close with the Helix, possibly even better when considering the mic'd up sound.

R.

Roland

Majorscale said:

OK Helix users I am intrigued by how you use it live. Here's what I'm interested in finding out... what's the best way of using it going straight to a PA (no amp, no FRFR, no stage monitor) and using IEMs as a monitor for the whole band mix. Currently I don't own either IEMs or a Helix, so starting from zero, what do you recommend equipment-wise and the best way to set it up?

OK, here we go again. “Best” is a relative term, and the answer depends totally on your context. What works for one person often doesn’t work for another. Which is why we keep going around these discussions, and seeing heated disagreement. A better way of approaching the question is “if I want to try Helix/Fractal/Kemper/etc then what’s the best way to start.

I can give you my personal answer, which is that I originally got into Fractal for the effects, and used it in the FX loop of a valve combo. Then I found that the amp sounds were quite good, and bypassed the combo’s preamp. Much later I switched to a powered pa speaker, and then to FRFR. Nowadays I go straight to the pa, and use the FRFR for personal monitoring and for acoustic coupling with the instrument. If I were starting again, knowing what I know now, then I’d go straight to FRFR. However that is a big step for anyone starting out because it feels different to having a hot valve amp and cabinet beside you. So if I were you I’d buy a secondhand Helix and experiment.

VJIves

If I was in a covers band you'd have to pry the helix out of my cold, dead hands as I can't imagine anything more convenient, but I couldn't get on with it at all as a writing tool. Partly that's down to my ADHD which gives me a really hard time menu diving, but when I'm putting my parts together on a home demo I love my board and a shelf of pedals within reach. Live I think there's way less chance of me treading on the wrong thing with pedals. In the middle of a gig I'd end up pressing the wrong snapshot or whatever and I'd find that harder to recover from while I tried to figure out what I'd done, compared to 'oh, I know what that pedal does and I know that it shouldn't be on'.