Bigsby problem

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lincolnbluelincolnblue Frets: 294
I have a Gretsch Electromatic G5655T Centre Block which has a Bigsby.

I have never had a bigsby before so have no idea if the problem I have is normal or not. When I use it then let go it almost has two positions it rests in - one in tune and the other slightly sharp. I then have to just nudge it up or down slightly to return to pitch (sorry it's hard to explain). Is this normal or should it always return to just one position?
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Comments

  • WhitecatWhitecat Frets: 5378
    Extremely normal. A nut upgrade will help, but for a long time in the misty past players just learned to give it a quick knock or tug to get it settle back to pitch. 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    There is sometimes a bit too much friction in the bearings, especially on licenced/copy Bigsbys, which can do this.

    It could also be caused by the bridge rocking slightly and not coming back to the same position - if the tuning sticks in the same direction as the last arm movement (ie arm down leaves it flat, arm up leaves it sharp) it's at the Bigsby/bridge end, and if it sticks in the opposite direction it's at the nut end.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • lincolnbluelincolnblue Frets: 294
    ICBM said:
    There is sometimes a bit too much friction in the bearings, especially on licenced/copy Bigsbys, which can do this.

    It could also be caused by the bridge rocking slightly and not coming back to the same position - if the tuning sticks in the same direction as the last arm movement (ie arm down leaves it flat, arm up leaves it sharp) it's at the Bigsby/bridge end, and if it sticks in the opposite direction it's at the nut end.
    Definitely the Bigsby end then. Something easily fixed?
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    Have a close look at it - preferably with the guitar body lying flat on a table or something - and see if you can see the bridge move, or if the strings are moving smoothly over it.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • impmannimpmann Frets: 12646
    Check out the Bricks Biggs Fix - pound to a penny it’ll be the roller not rolling.

    I may have one plus the super squishy spring for sale shortly... 
    Never Ever Bloody Anything Ever.

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  • JD50JD50 Frets: 651
    impmann said:
    Check out the Bricks Biggs Fix - pound to a penny it’ll be the roller not rolling.

    I may have one plus the super squishy spring for sale shortly... 
    That looks similar to the Towner Tension Bar.
    I used a Towner when I had a Bigsby on my old Sheraton, worked a treat.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    Another really odd one is that if the *arm* is loose, the Bigsby won’t always return to pitch. This is often caused by one too few washers in the bolt/spring assembly which holds the arm to the cam - the one that fits into the recess in the underside of the cam is usually missing. With it fitted and the arm done up nice and tightly, not only does the arm not tilt when you use it, the tuning is more stable.

    Exactly why is a bit baffling! But I think it’s possibly because with the arm tight, it vibrates slightly when you play, and the tiny trem movement that causes allows the Bigsby to settle back into the correct rest position more easily.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • TheMarlinTheMarlin Frets: 7744
    +1 for Bricks Bigs Fix



    You have the dreaded Bigsby B50.  I love a Bigsby, hate these.  The break angle from the bridge to the Bigsby can be severe, and often there is far too much string tensions between the tensions bar and roller to anchor point.  Plus, the plastic bearing in the roller doesn't roll under that tension. 

    There is a fix, and it's pretty cheap.  https://bricksbiggsfix.com/shop/

    You need this, https://bricksbiggsfix.com/product/btsv3/

    and I STRONGLY recommend that you need this:  https://bricksbiggsfix.com/product/sss/

    I've got a few of these.   Here is my thread on fitting version 1 of this - version 3 is a doddle to fit, no need to retain and modify the tension roller pin.  It's completely removed in V3.   http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/29433/how-to-improve-a-bigsby-b50-b70-and-make-it-feel-more-like-a-b6

    The end result is one of the best Bigsby's ever - easily as smooth and buttery in action as the Bigsby B6 on my Masterbullt Gretsch Anniversary.   I hate the B50, but a properly modified B50 is a killer trem.  Excellent in every way.

    The other thing to note is the nut.  The nut on pretty much all Gretsch Electromatics is hollow plastic rubbish that grips strings like a  grippy thing.  Spend some time opening up nut strings slots and, lube the hell out of it.  Pay close attention to the points of first/last contact between string and nut.  Open the slot at the back of the nut so the string doesn't hit an acute angle to the nut, same fro when the string leaves the nut for the bridge.   It's those sharp angles that can cause high friction points.

    Gretsch have done so much to improve the Electromatic line from the first solid lumpen Pro Jets to the underwhelming 5120.  New Jets and 5420's (and your model) are killer guitars.  Gretsch just need to learn to fit them with a better quality nut, that's actually cut for the strings they supply the guitar with.

    Sort the nut (I like brass, adds a zing to the chime!), mod the Bigsby - make sure the pickups are adjusted properly, and deep joy.
    https://www.tvjones.com/adjustments.html

    Fab guitar.

    Good luck

    Marlin

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  • CorvusCorvus Frets: 2924
    tFB Trader
    As ^ the plastic nuts plus the splayed strings aren't a good combo. Bone or Tusq works better. Long shot being I haven't seen it on licenced Bigsbys, their casting are much more accurate than US ones where I have had it a few times, is the arm bracket binding on the body. Can't easily tell with strings on unfortunately, feel it easily with them off and there'd be witness marks on the body & bracket.
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  • impmannimpmann Frets: 12646
    TheMarlin said:
    +1 for Bricks Bigs Fix



    You have the dreaded Bigsby B50.  I love a Bigsby, hate these.  The break angle from the bridge to the Bigsby can be severe, and often there is far too much string tensions between the tensions bar and roller to anchor point.  Plus, the plastic bearing in the roller doesn't roll under that tension. 

    There is a fix, and it's pretty cheap.  https://bricksbiggsfix.com/shop/

    You need this, https://bricksbiggsfix.com/product/btsv3/

    and I STRONGLY recommend that you need this:  https://bricksbiggsfix.com/product/sss/

    I've got a few of these.   Here is my thread on fitting version 1 of this - version 3 is a doddle to fit, no need to retain and modify the tension roller pin.  It's completely removed in V3.   http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/29433/how-to-improve-a-bigsby-b50-b70-and-make-it-feel-more-like-a-b6

    The end result is one of the best Bigsby's ever - easily as smooth and buttery in action as the Bigsby B6 on my Masterbullt Gretsch Anniversary.   I hate the B50, but a properly modified B50 is a killer trem.  Excellent in every way.

    The other thing to note is the nut.  The nut on pretty much all Gretsch Electromatics is hollow plastic rubbish that grips strings like a  grippy thing.  Spend some time opening up nut strings slots and, lube the hell out of it.  Pay close attention to the points of first/last contact between string and nut.  Open the slot at the back of the nut so the string doesn't hit an acute angle to the nut, same fro when the string leaves the nut for the bridge.   It's those sharp angles that can cause high friction points.

    Gretsch have done so much to improve the Electromatic line from the first solid lumpen Pro Jets to the underwhelming 5120.  New Jets and 5420's (and your model) are killer guitars.  Gretsch just need to learn to fit them with a better quality nut, that's actually cut for the strings they supply the guitar with.

    Sort the nut (I like brass, adds a zing to the chime!), mod the Bigsby - make sure the pickups are adjusted properly, and deep joy.
    https://www.tvjones.com/adjustments.html

    Fab guitar.

    Good luck

    Marlin

    Yup - that's my experience of the Bricks Fix... I've just reverted the guitar back to stock to sell it. So, I have a V3 spare, with the SSS too... ;-)
    Never Ever Bloody Anything Ever.

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  • Corvus said:
    licenced Bigsbys, their casting are much more accurate than US ones
    You mean a "real" Bigsby is less well made than a cheap one?  That's a bit pants!
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  • CorvusCorvus Frets: 2924
    tFB Trader
    Corvus said:
    licenced Bigsbys, their casting are much more accurate than US ones
    You mean a "real" Bigsby is less well made than a cheap one?  That's a bit pants!
    Not sure I'd say that exactly but the licenced castings are very consistent, had three US ones with the arm bracket being inconsistent, rubbing & binding on the body.. iffy round the tail hinge area sometimes so people end up shimming to make it sit centrally. The bushings being metal on metal can dry out but there's really just a maintenance thing.
    There's something nice about the US ones looks though and V-cut ones (US only) just look cooler than a penguin's dangly bits on a Gretsch.

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  • TheMarlinTheMarlin Frets: 7744
    impmann said:
    Yup - that's my experience of the Bricks Fix... I've just reverted the guitar back to stock to sell it. So, I have a V3 spare, with the SSS too... ;-)
    How much do you want for it?

    Would like to give @lincolnblue ;first dibs, as he needs it.  But, if he doesn't want, I'm interested :)

    Cheers

    Marlin
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  • lincolnbluelincolnblue Frets: 294
    TheMarlin said:
    impmann said:
    Yup - that's my experience of the Bricks Fix... I've just reverted the guitar back to stock to sell it. So, I have a V3 spare, with the SSS too... ;-)
    How much do you want for it?

    Would like to give @lincolnblue ;first dibs, as he needs it.  But, if he doesn't want, I'm interested :)

    Cheers

    Marlin
    I was just going to ask that...
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  • shrinkwrapshrinkwrap Frets: 512
    Someone should do a bulk buy on 100 of those springs and sell 'em here.
    I'll go third in the queue for a spring.
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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 9794
    I have a Gretsch Electromatic G5655T Centre Block which has a Bigsby.

    I have never had a bigsby before so have no idea if the problem I have is normal or not. When I use it then let go it almost has two positions it rests in - one in tune and the other slightly sharp. I then have to just nudge it up or down slightly to return to pitch (sorry it's hard to explain). Is this normal or should it always return to just one position?
    I'd remove it.
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • impmannimpmann Frets: 12646
    TheMarlin said:
    impmann said:
    Yup - that's my experience of the Bricks Fix... I've just reverted the guitar back to stock to sell it. So, I have a V3 spare, with the SSS too... ;-)
    How much do you want for it?

    Would like to give @lincolnblue ;first dibs, as he needs it.  But, if he doesn't want, I'm interested :)

    Cheers

    Marlin
    I was just going to ask that...
    PM Sent.
    Never Ever Bloody Anything Ever.

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  • digitalkettledigitalkettle Frets: 3124
    I have never had a bigsby before so have no idea if the problem I have is normal or not. When I use it then let go it almost has two positions it rests in - one in tune and the other slightly sharp. I then have to just nudge it up or down slightly to return to pitch (sorry it's hard to explain). Is this normal or should it always return to just one position?
    I had exactly this problem. I suspected it might've been something to do with a pretty severe break angle but had someone look at the nut, etc. to rule out the usual suspects. No improvement so I decided to go for it and ordered Brick's BiggsFix.

    Fitted it yesterday...now I have only the slightest break angle (it's *just* enough) but the Bigsby is incredibly responsive and stable. No regrets so far...it doesn't look as awkward as I thought it would either!
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  • TheMarlinTheMarlin Frets: 7744
    Makes an incredible difference.  I’m a big fan of of the Tuning Stabiliser!  
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