2 subs or 1?

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JetfireJetfire Frets: 1687
We have 1 sub right now and my argument is we should have two for stereo, blance etc. Would this be fair?
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  • simonksimonk Frets: 1467
    Don’t think you need it in the average pub environment TBH... we only use one. 
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  • We have 2 subs available to use in my covers band but 9 times out of 10 we only use one.

    Our subs have stereo inputs and outputs so its not an issue connection wise. 

    Our PA is powered and very efficient so one is usually enough for the size of venues we play.

    It all comes down to the kind of PA you are using and how loud/efficient your PA is. If you feel the low end is lacking then adding another sub would be beneficial.

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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    Are you talking about proper subs or bass bins ..... proper subs extent down to 25Hz or so and are pretty non directional .... one will do in most smaller venues. Typical band  bass bins though generally aren't really subs, they handle frequencies down to only 50Hz or so ......  sometimes they are advertised as going down to  20hz etc but they can be  20dB down at 20Hz from 100Hz so it's not strictly honest
    For typical band bass bins like Mackie SRM bins, HK Actor, QSC K series etc one each side with a pole for the tops is a good way to go
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • JetfireJetfire Frets: 1687
    Well... abit of back story may help. 

    We have the mackie srm450 tops and a mackie swa1501 sub. The last, large venue gig we did we had just the tops and no sub.  To quote the singer "At the Gate, people struggled to hear my vocals only a few rows back, I couldn't turn it up much more as the lights were already peaking slightly.  The sound at the back was very quiet, so we are producing a very thin quality of sound and no richness". I think she believes that the subs will sort it. 
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  • robinbowesrobinbowes Frets: 3021
    mackie swa1501s crossover at 120Hz so they ain't goin' to help your singer get heard, no matter how many of them you have.
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  • JetfireJetfire Frets: 1687
    edited May 2018
    @robinbowes how could I explain this to my singer in laymans terms? Her argumebt is that by the band (bass drum, bass di'd and my helix) going through front of house effects her vocals... 
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  • LebarqueLebarque Frets: 3755
    Love a meatball marinara
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  • robinbowesrobinbowes Frets: 3021
    Jetfire said:
    @robinbowes how could I explain this to my singer in laymans terms? Her argumebt is that by the band (bass drum, bass di'd and my helix) going through front of house effects her vocals... 
    Ask her to sing the lowest note she can.

    Is it lower than this: 

    R.
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  • JetfireJetfire Frets: 1687
    Ah so that particular speaker only really starts working on frequencies lower than that? Guitar and bass arent really lower than that either Id assume?
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  • robinbowesrobinbowes Frets: 3021
    The fundamental frequencies of a regular bass guitar tuned to standard pitch (A=440hz) are:

    E - 41.204 Hz
    A - 55 Hz
    D - 73.416 Hz
    G - 97.999 Hz

    The frequencies of the corresponding strings on a regular guitar are an octave higher, ie. twice the frequencies of the bass strings, ie. 82.41 Hz, 110.00 Hz, etc.

    R.
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  • JetfireJetfire Frets: 1687
    So... what your saying is what we current own isnt any use for what we need? What would be more useful? 
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  • Bass has frequencies much lower than 120hz. Guitar also does but there really isn't anything useful below 100-80hz which is why a high pass filter is useful, it clears up a lot of the low end rumble a mic'd guitar cab can create, thus making the mix cleaner.

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  • robinbowesrobinbowes Frets: 3021
    I'm saying that the sub will not be reproducing much/anything from the vocalist.

    If you're not putting bass or guitar through the PA then the sub will be largely redundant, although it may add some bottom end, depending on how steep the crossover slope is.
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  • robinbowesrobinbowes Frets: 3021
    Jetfire said:
    @robinbowes how could I explain this to my singer in laymans terms? Her argumebt is that by the band (bass drum, bass di'd and my helix) going through front of house effects her vocals... 

    Sorry, I didn't read this properly.

    The band going through the PA will make those other things louder which may mask the vocals. That's just a matter of getting the balance right.

    At a large venue, you're always going to struggle with just a pair of tops. I wouldn't even put kick and bass through the PA with just a pair of tops.

    Mackie srm450 are ubiquitous, but not magical - they will not fill a large room effectively.

    R.
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  • JetfireJetfire Frets: 1687
    Thank dude. 
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  • robinbowesrobinbowes Frets: 3021
    I'd offer to come and do PA for you with my rig but a) I'm too far away, and b) you're probably not getting paid enough to afford me :)

    R.
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  • JetfireJetfire Frets: 1687
    C) our singers a headcase so best steer clear.
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357
    With the SRM's you can push in the hi pass filter button on the back and then you can get the speaker to project vocals better as it's not handling anything below 70hz
    Also make sure the contour button isn't push in 

    In Italian Job we did some pretty big places with 2 SRM450's and 2 X 18" bins .... the 18's are much more effective than the 15"s

    Always make sure your tops are high enough so the tallest bloke can't block the horn. High frequencies are very direction and a lot of bands don't put enough height on their tops to get past people dancing at the front 
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • JetfireJetfire Frets: 1687
    @Danny1969 fair play, we played a gig a few weeks ago, 5 foot high stage, massive high ceiling yet i was argued down that having the stands at 6 foot so the speakers were 11 foot above everyones ears and head. Pointless. Also, no sub. 
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  • monkey42monkey42 Frets: 336
    Also, if this is about reaching people at a distance then you may need to consider line array.

    most gigs, your rig should be fine though
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