Power amp or cheap valve amp for modeller

mr-mac

Palmer do a 1u which may be option 2nd hand but yes an old PA amp with some eq and reverb could be a great option and likely well under budget.

mr-mac

Even the Samson power amps sorta between studio and pa power levels are a good choice (as gsp does have a global 7 band eq that can be quickly tweaked in venue to fine tune to venues acoustics).

it comes down to use though.  If you'll likely be through PA regularly then a accurate amp would be good (so pa/studio/old solid state would be good) so you hear close to what xlr to pa is giving....

If your most likely to just be using cab without mic'ing up I'd go for valve power amp as gsp doesn't do power amp modelling so power tube compression and saturation can certainly add a little something to final sound you won't get on the solid state power amp options.

Left field.... Lab Series head L11 or lab series amp (L5, L7, L9) as it has optical compressor at end to mimic valve power amp compression and is seriously capable power section.  if you can find a beat up amp or head alter/recase as head with gsp mounted in it.  It's clean channel is also a stunning rendition of pre gain control fender twin to a T with loads more clean volume and headroom avail so gets you a very nice clean channel that can 4 cable around too.

mr-mac

Cheap valve combos to use 4 cable or direct into power amp...

Crate Vintage Club 50 (VC5212) it is very close to an AC30 power amp, el84's but fixed bias... Very good sound and cos they are crate everyone dissmisses them so can be had under £200

last thought.  Vintage Valve powered PA amp

kennedydream1980

Thomann sell a 1u Power Amp under their own brand name (Harley Benton). Looks good value and gets favourable reviews.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_gpa_400.htm

drwiddly

I had a credit with Thomann a while ago and used it towards one of those Harley Benton power amps to use as a spare.
A few months ago I had a mad weekend with several gigs and by the Sunday afternoon one, I was fed up with humping gear. The HB was in the rack with my Kemper so I just brought that to the gig (how bad could it be?). Turns out it was great through my two 2x12 cabs and I didn't miss the Power Station at all.
I saw the comment above but it doesn't sound boxy to me. Might be gear/volume dependant?

robinbowes

How about one of those power-amp-in-a-pedal things? I've not tried one, but they should drive a cab OK, and would be more reliable than a valve amp.

thecolourbox

robinbowes said:

How about one of those power-amp-in-a-pedal things? I've not tried one, but they should drive a cab OK, and would be more reliable than a valve amp.

I tried the Magnun 44 in Guitar Guitar and it died whilst I was playing through it, and was buzzy as hell before it died! But I'm sure there are others...

FX_Munkee

Probably not that useful to you, but I use my GSP1101 in a rack with a Laney IRT Studio Amp. Set up 4 cable method and it works superbly. Obviously that's a bit more cash than you're looking at right now but just thought I'd mention it for reference.

Anyway, as you were.

gearaddict

drwiddly said:

I had a credit with Thomann a while ago and used it towards one of those Harley Benton power amps to use as a spare.
A few months ago I had a mad weekend with several gigs and by the Sunday afternoon one, I was fed up with humping gear. The HB was in the rack with my Kemper so I just brought that to the gig (how bad could it be?). Turns out it was great through my two 2x12 cabs and I didn't miss the Power Station at all.
I saw the comment above but it doesn't sound boxy to me. Might be gear/volume dependant?

Interesting...my experience with the GPA400 was using a Pod HD500 so maybe that was accentuating the issue. I A/B'd the GPA400 with the 44 Magnum and the Magnum did sound a lot more open and realistic. I would quite like a 1u rack power amp so I can stick it together with the GSP1101 in a short 2u case...it would just be neater.

There is a Palmer 1u unit on Thomann as well, which is a bit more expensive.

drwiddly

Thinking on it, I used the Kemper with the HB at the Huddersfield Jam in January. If you have a listen to Living After Midnight and Can't Get Enough, that's what it sounds like! 

gearaddict

Anyone actually compared the HB GPA400 to the Palmer Macht 402?

olafgarten

gearaddict said:

Anyone actually compared the HB GPA400 to the Palmer Macht 402?

No, but considering they are both meant to be pretty flat sounding, I don't think they will sound much different. 

gearaddict

This (German) review has some clips comparing the GPA-400 with other power amps. It holds up pretty well in this test at least...

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=https://www.bonedo.de/artikel/einzelansicht/harley-benton-gpa-400-test.html&prev=search

gearaddict

Why does the Rocktron Velocity 300 weigh 8kg when similarly spec'd amps like the HB GPA400 and the Palmer Macht 402 weigh less than half that?

ICBM

gearaddict said:

Why does the Rocktron Velocity 300 weigh 8kg when similarly spec'd amps like the HB GPA400 and the Palmer Macht 402 weigh less than half that?

The Rocktron uses a traditional linear power supply with a large toroidal transformer. The HB and Palmer have switch-mode power supplies, which don't use a large transformer. The weight of the Rocktron's transformer probably accounts for all the weight difference.

The Rocktron also appears to be Class AB, whereas the other two are Class D - a little more efficient, so the size of the power transistor heatsinks can potentially be smaller for the same power output.

gearaddict

Ah, cool, thanks. Presumably being A/B and having a linear power supply is better? Otherwise people wouldn't put up with the weight difference. Or is it just older?

ICBM

gearaddict said:

Ah, cool, thanks. Presumably being A/B and having a linear power supply is better? Otherwise people wouldn't put up with the weight difference. Or is it just older?

It's older. Some people still prefer them, and certainly the earlier SMPS/Class D amps didn't sound as good, although the most recent generation of SMPS/Class D amps seem to be accepted as being as good. You can also have one without the other, although both is most common for higher-power amps now.

There is a big problem with SMPS/Class D compared to linear/Class AB though - repairability. As long as you can get the individual components - and assuming the PCB isn't burned too badly - you can always repair a Class AB amp or replace a transformer. For both SMPS and Class D power amps, the usual repair procedure is to replace the entire module - if that's not possible and you have to try to do it on a component level "replace all active components, pray, and turn on" is the normal approach. There are some other common problems, eg filter cap failure, which can be done on a component basis, but anything more involved is very difficult even for experienced techs.

Given the choice, and as long as the weight difference wasn't too excessive, I would personally still prefer linear/Class AB.

gearaddict

Is it just me, or does the Matrix sound by far the worst thing in this comparison?



...which can't reflect reality since so many pros swear by them. It's a shame he didn't try running the Helix into the fx return of the Engl - I'd have been interested to hear that, compared to the straight amp and the other power amp options.

I know the Line 6 powercab doesn't get a huge amount of love here but from the comparisons I have seen it sounds pretty good. I mostly use an Orange 1x12 cab just coz it's convenient but I often think it would be nice to try different speakers. I find it nice on the high end and bass but just a bit too middy/boxy. I also have a Marshall 1936 with v30s and it sounds smoother overall but the top end is a bit harsh. The powercab is tempting in that it lets you experiment with different driver characteristics.

This demo is interesting:



This really is my experience of FRFR speakers...it just sounds kind of muffled and sort of distant. The powercab is just much more present. I guess this is the difference between amp in the room and the mic'd up PA experience, so maybe comparing them like that is apples and oranges. But at the end of the day, I guess you want to play through something that just makes your ears happy. 

paulmapp8306

I thought the Matrix was the best of the "modelling" solutions - or rather the closest to the real amp, and the QSC K10 was the worst.  Not great for me as I was thinking of picking up the K10 for duel keys and AFK duties.

John_A

gearaddict said:

Is it just me, or does the Matrix sound by far the worst thing in this comparison?

Hope, not just you   Although the K10 sounds pretty awful too.  I'm a huge Helix fan, but the real amp won that shootout for me   L2 didn't sound half bad though