Dorian mode chord progression questions..

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bloodandtearsbloodandtears Frets: 1646
Consider the chord progression below:
Dm - C - G

Is it purely about the implied tonic / home note that dicates..

1) For purposes of transposition would this be written as:   i - VII - IV instead of ii - I - V
2) Give the chordal notes are taken from the C major scale.. and our opening chord is D minor.. this is consider D Dorian as opposed to say, C Ionian (Major) or G Mixolydian.



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  • vizviz Frets: 10645
    edited July 2018
    Yes and yes
























    (it’s like a dorian version of Sweet Home Alabama)
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • bloodandtearsbloodandtears Frets: 1646
    ok, what about if the chord progression was:

    G - G - Dm - C


    would this be V - ii - I , because it feels like its resolving to C?  thus C Ionian ...

    or is this G Mixolydian?



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    is it crazy how saying sentences backwards creates backwards sentences saying how crazy it is?

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  • vizviz Frets: 10645
    edited July 2018
    Well what you’re talking about here is: where is home. Depending on rhythm, accentuation, even lyrics, you can spin a progression in a number of ways. Sweet Home is notoriously ambiguous. But yes, I suppose in the majority of cases I’d hear that as ending on the C. Therefore C major. But I could quite easily play that groove in a way that put home on the G chord, in which case it’d be G mixolydian. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 3261
    ok, what about if the chord progression was:

    G - G - Dm - C


    would this be V - ii - I , because it feels like its resolving to C?  thus C Ionian ...

    or is this G Mixolydian?



    if that progression cycled it feels like G mix to me
    play every note as if it were your first
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  • bloodandtearsbloodandtears Frets: 1646
    Clarky said:
    ok, what about if the chord progression was:

    G - G - Dm - C


    would this be V - ii - I , because it feels like its resolving to C?  thus C Ionian ...

    or is this G Mixolydian?



    if that progression cycled it feels like G mix to me
    How would it be written? Still V - ii - I ??
    My trading feedback

    is it crazy how saying sentences backwards creates backwards sentences saying how crazy it is?

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  • vizviz Frets: 10645
    edited July 2018
    Clarky said:
    ok, what about if the chord progression was:

    G - G - Dm - C


    would this be V - ii - I , because it feels like its resolving to C?  thus C Ionian ...

    or is this G Mixolydian?



    if that progression cycled it feels like G mix to me
    How would it be written? Still V - ii - I ??
    No, if G is the root, G is the I. That’s the rule. The home chord is ALWAYS the I (or i). 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 3261
    edited July 2018
    Clarky said:
    ok, what about if the chord progression was:

    G - G - Dm - C


    would this be V - ii - I , because it feels like its resolving to C?  thus C Ionian ...

    or is this G Mixolydian?



    if that progression cycled it feels like G mix to me
    How would it be written? Still V - ii - I ??
    I - V - IV in G mix because G is 'home'

    in rock [late 70's and 80's] that's not exactly a rare progression either
    you could consider the Dm as being an alternative to F for a little spicing up
    G - G - F - C becomes G - G - Dm - C
    in this context you can hear that the F and Dm chords function in a similar way

    play every note as if it were your first
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  • bloodandtearsbloodandtears Frets: 1646
    Why is it written I - V - IV?   and not I - v - IV?
    My trading feedback

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  • vizviz Frets: 10645
    edited July 2018
    Why is it written I - V - IV?   and not I - v - IV?
    It is I-v-IV, but the convention of capitals for major and small letters for minor is sort-of optional and not always followed, After all, the number is the most important thing. That’s why you hear “two-five-one”, not “little two, five, one”. Strictly speaking you’re right though, it’s I-v-IV. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • ClarkyClarky Frets: 3261
    edited July 2018
    viz said:
    Why is it written I - V - IV?   and not I - v - IV?
    It is I-v-IV, but the convention of capitals for major and small letters for minor is sort-of optional and not always followed, After all, the number is the most important thing. That’s why you hear “two-five-one”, not “little two, five, one”. Strictly speaking you’re right though, it’s I-v-IV. 
    I write everything upper case..
    the upper case / lower case thing was not how I was taught so I don't follow it
    you don't really need to do it cos if you know the key centre you have enough information to know what's going on

    but if folks like the upper / lower case thing for clarity that's cool and I'll never argue against it

    EDIT: question... did the upper / lower case thing come out of the US?
    play every note as if it were your first
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  • bigjonbigjon Frets: 680
    Clarky said:
    did the upper / lower case thing come out of the US?
    As it's called the Nashville numbering system I would guess so, supposed to have been developed by the country sessioneers there. Against how viz and I both use it, they relate everything to the major scale, so if a song is in a minor key the home chord is not i but vi.

    e.g. I would notate All Along The Watchtower as I bVII bVI etc but strictly according to the Nashville numbering system it's vi V IV etc.
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  • bigjonbigjon Frets: 680
    Clarky said:
    ok, what about if the chord progression was:

    G - G - Dm - C


    would this be V - ii - I , because it feels like its resolving to C?  thus C Ionian ...

    or is this G Mixolydian?



    if that progression cycled it feels like G mix to me
    Feels like G mixolydian to me as well. Two of my favourite progressions to solo over are

    No Air by Jordin Sparks ft Chris Brown
    G Dm Am C

    Gravity by John Mayer
    G G |Dm C|G/B Am|
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  • bigjonbigjon Frets: 680
    Consider the chord progression below:
    Dm - C - G

    Is it purely about the implied tonic / home note that dicates..

    1) For purposes of transposition would this be written as:   i - VII - IV instead of ii - I - V
    1) In the Nashville numbering system it would probably be written ii I V but I think strictly it should be written vi V II as everything is supposed to be related to the relative major of the home key, in this case F major is the relative major of the home key of Dm.

    I would write it i bVII IV.

    Examples in rock of a Dm, C & G chord progression include -
    Rain by The Cult
    Solo section of Edie Ciao Baby by The Cult
    Fire by The Cult

    And just for variety, an Example in rock of a D, C & G progression is -
    She Sells Sanctuary by The Cult
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  • vizviz Frets: 10645
    edited July 2018
    bigjon said:
    Clarky said:
    did the upper / lower case thing come out of the US?
     ...  but strictly according to the Nashville numbering system it's vi V IV etc.
    Which is to me mental and counter-intuitive. I like the use of small letters for minors but the I (or i) has GOT to denote the home key because it’s the tonic!

    I don’t know how far back the use of numbering for chords goes but it was certainly around in the 1700s and always related to the tonic of the piece, whether it was in ionian, aeolian, dorian or anything else. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • vizviz Frets: 10645

    bigjon said:
    Consider the chord progression below:
    Dm - C - G

    Is it purely about the implied tonic / home note that dicates..

    1) For purposes of transposition would this be written as:   i - VII - IV instead of ii - I - V
    1) In the Nashville numbering system it would probably be written ii I V but I think strictly it should be written vi V II as everything is supposed to be related to the relative major of the home key, in this case F major is the relative major of the home key of Dm.

    I would write it i bVII IV.

    Examples in rock of a Dm, C & G chord progression include -
    Rain by The Cult
    Solo section of Edie Ciao Baby by The Cult
    Fire by The Cult

    And just for variety, an Example in rock of a D, C & G progression is -
    Sweet Home Alabama
    Corrected. 
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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  • bloodandtearsbloodandtears Frets: 1646
    Hmm, as a newbie I must say I like the clarity of mixed case numbering. But having different methods out there just causes ambiguity to my mind.


    My trading feedback

    is it crazy how saying sentences backwards creates backwards sentences saying how crazy it is?

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  • vizviz Frets: 10645
    Hmm, as a newbie I must say I like the clarity of mixed case numbering. But having different methods out there just causes ambiguity to my mind.


    Agreed, especially as the concepts themselves are very simple (and the old way was the best)
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom
  • bloodandtearsbloodandtears Frets: 1646
    So.. why this??

    i - bVII - IV

    or

    i - VII - IV


    My trading feedback

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  • BradBrad Frets: 658
    Looks like I’m (predictably) going to go against the grain again :smile: 

    @bloodandtears  I’d view your initial chords as being ii- I - V. I’d be happy seeing or thinking of it as i - VII - IV too. Both are fine and that’s the problem here, there can be many ways of looking at same problem. I think the most important thing is that you state where you’re relating things to. Analysing against C will result in different answers to Dm. 

    However I prefer the former because in my mind at least there is less thinking involved, particularly when dealing with tunes that have a lot of changes in them. Taking Stella By Starlight for example, where is home? How do the chords fit in relation to home and does this throw up any problems? 

    Because of this, I’d hazard a guess that it originated in the States, primarily with Jazz where the ii V I is the foundation for which most things are built. It makes it much easier from an improvisation perspective too and as with all things American, it’s made it’s way over here. 
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  • bloodandtearsbloodandtears Frets: 1646
    I have to concur that ii - I - V certainly sets out the idea of Dorian mode.
    My trading feedback

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