How on Earth do you tame a loud drummer???

Axe_meister

Buy him some of those split drum sticks that Dave Grill used on the Nirvana u plugged gig. He confessed himself he can't play quietly and they where a revelation.

Octafish

John_P said:

You won’t take him.     Some drummers struggle to play quietly and I would include some of the best drummers I know in that.    I left a band earlier this year for that reason - amazing player and a mate but he is only suited to decebt stages and venues designed for a loud band not pubs.  He was a bit of an exception, other drummers I know are too loud imo but just manageable at pub gigs if you can balance the sound - less in the pa and careful eq to give spread not volume. 
I would either live with it and accept some gigs are too small for that lineup or experiment with a screen.    

The thing is how can they be a amazing players if they have no control over their dynamics. Drums often sound a bit shit when you just thrash away at them, a lot of the tone and timbre is lost and the sound is one dimensional. Playing at full tilt all the time is just boring and adds little to music, plus you have nowhere else to go, no 11 to turn up to. Some of the best funk drummers have a heavy fat sound, yet they in no way are they thrashing away as hard as they can.

dano

Octafish said:

John_P said:

You won’t take him.     Some drummers struggle to play quietly and I would include some of the best drummers I know in that.    I left a band earlier this year for that reason - amazing player and a mate but he is only suited to decebt stages and venues designed for a loud band not pubs.  He was a bit of an exception, other drummers I know are too loud imo but just manageable at pub gigs if you can balance the sound - less in the pa and careful eq to give spread not volume. 
I would either live with it and accept some gigs are too small for that lineup or experiment with a screen.    

The thing is how can they be a amazing players if they have no control over their dynamics. Drums often sound a bit shit when you just thrash away at them, a lot of the tone and timbre is lost and the sound is one dimensional. Playing at full tilt all the time is just boring and adds little to music, plus you have nowhere else to go, no 11 to turn up to. Some of the best funk drummers have a heavy fat sound, yet they in no way are they thrashing away as hard as they can.

This.

If you want to drum quieter you can.  It's just dynamics and a will to want to do it. 

Octafish

slacker said:

Years ago I played with an insanely loud drummer. He started going deaf and played louder. Don't play with him anymore.

Conversely i was in a jam band with a drummer who just couldn't play loud. We micd up the whole kit for rehearsal. Sheer joy.

So what I'm saying is get another drummer.

I played with one of those. He was a pro-drummer who was exceptionally skilled in many ways, but was obsessed with playing as lightly as possible. It was the other extreme, again ultimately one-dimensional and always had a prancey, skipping feel. We used to do some Ska numbers where I wanted some real raspy high hat stuff and, but he always insisted on some impotent prancey closed high hat thing tapping.

thecolourbox

The passive conflict averse me would arrange for a video or recording of the band live, probably putting the mic where the loudness of the drums was at its worst, then say as a whole bands let's listen to this and see what we can improve on...

ICBM

I also once left a band because the drummer was too loud. (To be fair to him, and the rhythm guitarist.) He was a fantastic technical drummer in terms of timing and complexity, but had only two volumes - really loud, and as loud as possible. As loud as possible was physically painful in the room, even with earplugs in.

But he had gone to some trouble to find the loudest kit he could, which he seemed to think was the way to get the best sound. They vary quite a lot, and it's possible that you might need to persuade your drummer to invest in a second, quieter one. Flats are really a lot quieter, but maybe too much for a rock band at a normal gig.

The only other option that I can think of that hasn't been mentioned so far is to mic everything and give him too much drums and too little of everything else in his monitors, and see if he plays quieter in order to hear you all. This can work with overly-loud guitarists...

richardhomer

The mark of any musician to me, is their ability to ‘serve the song’. The key skill is to listen to the whole - this guy sounds incapable of that....

darthed1981

merlin said:

Drummer kicks off at 1.07....

Wow that guy would be great to play with just look at him...

Crikey, I sound like Kevin Spacey...

He would be great to be on a stage with, there we go...

martin8708

sweepy said:

Tbh, ff he can’t control his volume, he’s not a very good drummer, some venues aren’t big enough for screens so maybe have a grown up conversation with him and say that you have had noise complaints from venues that he particularly likes playing at

Very much this . As a bass player I tend to play right next to the drummer whilst the guitars and vocals are out in front , some will just beat the shit out of their kit , others will actually listen to what the band is doing and adjust accordingly .

Volume is no substitute for technique.

LuttiS

I used to have a drummer like that.. the PA with band couldnt compete, songer had to shout to be heard, which did no favours for his voice.. bought him those nylon brush sticks, refused to use them. 

Had to say buh bye.. I then became the drummer. Being a guitarist I knew when not to play.. 


What I'm saying is kick him out and play drums yourself. It's fun.

Cols

You could try him on Hot Rods instead of regular wooden drumsticks, they help to keep volume down.  He might rebel though.

One of my old venues had a decibelometer that cut the power to the band if the noise level exceeded a certain point.  It was never one of the amplified instruments which tripped it...

slacker

1. Octafish said:

slacker said:

Years ago I played with an insanely loud drummer. He started going deaf and played louder. Don't play with him anymore.

Conversely i was in a jam band with a drummer who just couldn't play loud. We micd up the whole kit for rehearsal. Sheer joy.

So what I'm saying is get another drummer.

I played with one of those. He was a pro-drummer who was exceptionally skilled in many ways, but was obsessed with playing as lightly as possible. It was the other extreme, again ultimately one-dimensional and always had a prancey, skipping feel. We used to do some Ska numbers where I wanted some real raspy high hat stuff and, but he always insisted on some impotent prancey closed high hat thing tapping.

This one was a very petite young lady, she would try to hit them, we just ran the whole kit through the wedges. I can see why a poncy stlyle would grate.

Winny_Pooh

Realistically, it's hard to get musicians to change their perception of how/why they do things. I would suggest recording a rehearsal, having the rest of the band at a "normal" volume and listening all back together later. That'd be the time to make sure the other members are 100% onboard and discuss the imbalance. 

MattBanshee

Strap on a pair, put earplugs in and turn the amps up. 

octatonic

CarpeDiem said:

As @richh says, ask him to try different (lighter) drum sticks.

The weight of the stick doesn't make a huge difference.
I've used 5B's and I now use 5A's.
I'm as loud as I want to be with either.

Here is my take on it- I'm a gigging drummer and guitarist.
Many band members who complain about loudness of a drummer ore often just irritated that they drummer is eclipsing them and as soon as the drummer plays softer they turn up and it spoils the balance.

Professional bands- as in people who play large stages with decent foldback and PA's don't tend to make the same complaint because the environment supports a large sound and people also have either a dedicated monitor mix, or in-ears, or both.
But, and it is a big but, the drummers they are working with a pro's and know when to play loud and when to play soft.

The issue isn't about playing loud- it is about playing loud all the time, particularly when it comes to drum/cymbal balance.
When I was studying drums my teacher was very hot on getting the kick and snare fairly loud and using cymbal dynamics.
For the most part you play with tighter/softer hats and use cymbals for accents.
The drummers who I see overplaying are mostly overplaying cymbals- which fills up the available space and pisses everyone off.

At the 'pub gig' level there are issues- the drummer can control the volume but if they have only ever practiced at full volume then it isn't simply a matter of playing softer.
You actually have to practice playing softer because the muscle memory of playing hard becomes automatic.
When you try to play softer you don't have the same muscle memory and it becomes harder and more exhausting to do this, also your timing goes.
It isn't selfishness, ego, or childishness- it is habit.

Another issue is that even when you play as quiet as you can it isn't quiet enough for some people (usually singers with no microphone technique or who are actually afraid to make a noise).
These people are always looking for a scapegoat and the drummer is an easy option.

That said, there are things drummers can do to keep the volume down and it is mostly down to cymbals.
Playing tight hi-hats (not open/half open) will make a huge difference, as will not crashing all the time.
Loud Kick and Snare with soft hats will open up the soundstage for other people to play over.

Also, genre matters and situation matters.
Are you playing in a 7 piece functions band with no foldback and a shite PA and you have a loud drummer- you have a point and a reason to get them to work on dynamics.

Are you playing in a 4 piece stoner/metal band on a big stage and complaining about the loudness of your drummer? 
Hmmm....

Go and see Clutch and see how hard Jean-Paul Gaster is playing.
The guy is a beast and I'm pretty certain Neil Fallon never says 'yeah man, can you play a bit quieter', I can't hear my vocals.

TTBZ

I had the opposite problem, the drummer was barely tickling the kit whilst playing a Nirvana cover - you just don't do that!

menamestom

TTBZ said:

I had the opposite problem, the drummer was barely tickling the kit whilst playing a Nirvana cover - you just don't do that!

I prefer loud drummers, as long as it’s not all cymbals and they have dynamics at the right time.  Drums compress and sound much fatter when hit hard, drummers who tickle the skins usually sound rubbish.  Even good Jazz drummers up the volume when required.

Jimbro66

Use kryptonite

Danny1969

I know a lot of session drummers after working in 2020 for 5 years. I have to say all those are hard hitters, not so much on the hat and cymbals (thankfully) but they tend to hit the skins consistently hard, that's why they record so well. 

In small venues a hard hitting drummer can be a problem but different kits can help. Below session drummer Mitch Glover is dep'ing in my band as our normal drummer was on tour with Ward Thomas. Look at the size of the kit he's using - that's then mic'ed through the PA so still sounds decent 



Our current drummer who's also a session guy and drum teacher brings a similar cocktail kit for small venues, it really helps

Phil_aka_Pip

I know a drum tutor who can get a real hard rock sound out of his kit - but the volume is low enough to have a conversation right next to him playing. He can crank the volume if you want him to but he demonstrated to me that the sound is down to how you play it and you don't have to hit it hard to make it sound like you're hitting it hard.

And because I've heard this chap do it I believe him. If you can't get the right sound out of your kit at the right volume then you're doing it wrong. This chap is an ex-percussionist in the RAOC band.