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ecc83ecc83 Frets: 1589

Pretty much of a cop out that the amps were DI'ed?

Dave.

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  • FunkfingersFunkfingers Frets: 14323
    Probably wisest to assess those Blackstar products in the context of an Anderton's bass amp shootout video. At least, then, it would be possible to draw comparisons with rival brands - even if they are all recorded via D.I.

    For the lower wattage models, it might be more helpful to demonstrate them with the sort of mid-price instrument that the likeliest customers probably own.
    Be seeing you.
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  • MattBansheeMattBanshee Frets: 1498
    I don't trust any video or opinion with that shop's name on it anyway.
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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24579
    To be fair, most bass players will run a DI from the amp to FOH so they are sort of comparing that sound. 

    Then again, I’ve always found their bass vids to be a bit of a mixed bag. 
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  • ecc83ecc83 Frets: 1589
    To be fair, most bass players will run a DI from the amp to FOH so they are sort of comparing that sound. 

    Then again, I’ve always found their bass vids to be a bit of a mixed bag. 


    Well, I am not up on Modern Times bass wise but I doubt the peeps in B's projected market will have access to such stonking PAs that can handle bass?

    Then the whole "Unity" range is based on bigger and bigger amps an a SLAVE powered cab FCS?

    Dave.

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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24579
    ecc83 said:
    To be fair, most bass players will run a DI from the amp to FOH so they are sort of comparing that sound. 

    Then again, I’ve always found their bass vids to be a bit of a mixed bag. 


    Well, I am not up on Modern Times bass wise but I doubt the peeps in B's projected market will have access to such stonking PAs that can handle bass?

    Then the whole "Unity" range is based on bigger and bigger amps an a SLAVE powered cab FCS?

    Dave.

    Pretty much the majority of my gigging is festivals which have a very capable PA and bass is expected to go through it. Sometimes there isn’t the space and time for a big bass rig and having a DI from an onstage bass amp monitor is invaluable. 


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  • ecc83ecc83 Frets: 1589
    ecc83 said:
    To be fair, most bass players will run a DI from the amp to FOH so they are sort of comparing that sound. 

    Then again, I’ve always found their bass vids to be a bit of a mixed bag. 


    Well, I am not up on Modern Times bass wise but I doubt the peeps in B's projected market will have access to such stonking PAs that can handle bass?

    Then the whole "Unity" range is based on bigger and bigger amps an a SLAVE powered cab FCS?

    Dave.

    Pretty much the majority of my gigging is festivals which have a very capable PA and bass is expected to go through it. Sometimes there isn’t the space and time for a big bass rig and having a DI from an onstage bass amp monitor is invaluable. 



    Yes, ok that is your experience but these are "budget" bass amps aimed essentially at the bedroom jockey and maybe a pub player?

    Such a customer is going to want to know how the things sound  in a room, using the internal speaker.

    Might I say? I am heartily hissed off that Blackstar waited until I left before they got into bass amps! Not only could I play a bit of bass but my hearing is first class up to 1kHz or so!

    I have BTW contacted Andertons and had a very polite reply to the effect that they will pass my comments on to the relevant peoples.


    Dave.


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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    DI'ing is par for the course at any semi-pro level gig - it's rare for a soundman to want/allow mic'ing the amp.

    But (I know I've said this before) the lack of a head and cab version and the top-facing controls on all models make this a semi-pro range at best and not professional anyway.


    Watched the video. If someone could shut those two idiots up it would possibly be better...

    What a terrible demo at the start. The bass sounds heavily limited - with no punch, dynamics or bottom end... totally buried by the guitar, although that may just be down to the mix - but this is supposed to be a bass amp demo, not a guitar demo.

    The rest of the demo when the hipster twit is widdling away on the Jazz sounds terrible too. Chorus? What for?! This is 2018, not 1988. The only impressive thing was that the other guy could pick the amp up and turn it upside down without standing up, which means it must weigh about as much as a cardboard box. But when he was using the Rick it just sounded like it was going through a guitar amp.

    If I didn't know about their reliability issues I would take an Ashdown over one of these every single time. And even then maybe I would.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24579
    My view of bass amps is a little different to that of guitar amps I guess. Bass is often played and recorded without amps - speaker/cab sound can have less of an overall effect on perceived sound compared to a guitar setup. 

    Also, in the studio, you tend to not mic up a bass cab but use a DI solution. Problem for Anderson’s is they would end up mic’ing the cab anyway to record so they might as well DI as all the “flavour” is in the Preamp anyway. Ampeg’s PF all valve 20 and 50 watt heads are a good example of this - they have DI outs for studio recording. In fact many only use them like this. 

    Much as I agree that a beginner would want to know how it would sound “in the bedroom” I don’t think you can capture that for a bass amp in a YouTube video - so they are giving you the next best thing - The DI sound. As a bass player, I find that important.. 


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  • ecc83ecc83 Frets: 1589

    IC, I do NOT mean "miccing the amp" for PA purposes. Yes, DI is the way to go, even the home recording bod will likely DI since recording bass acoustically at home is very difficult and bloody anti-social!

    BUT! For a sales demo peeps are buying the whole thing! They need to know what it sounds like. Given your encyclopaedic knowledge of guitar speakers you would I am sure think it bloody silly if the same stunt were done with a guitar amp? "What is the speaker? What TF does it sound like?? "

    The head/cab point is well taken but I have said this before. IF peeps want such a version, BADGER the A off B's! They have responded in the past.

    Not SO fussed about the controls. I see your point re guitar amps but a bass combo should sit on the floor for maximum  coupling.


    Dave.

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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24579
    I can’t see how you could get a recording of a bass amp on a video without mic’ing it tho?
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  • ecc83ecc83 Frets: 1589

    "Much as I agree that a beginner would want to know how it would sound “in the bedroom” I don’t think you can capture that for a bass amp in a YouTube video - so they are giving you the next best thing - The DI sound. As a bass player, I find that important.."

    I agree, getting a good acoustic recording of bass is tricky. This is why I have said to Andertons that IMHO the video should have been shot "professionally".  This is a sales pitch, you want to give the punter the WHOLE picture. I agree with ICBM, the first minute or so was "guitar"! Why? No reason why a pro studio could not give us  speaker sounds AND DI sound (of just bass!)

    Dave. 

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  • ecc83ecc83 Frets: 1589
    I can’t see how you could get a recording of a bass amp on a video without mic’ing it tho?


    ? ? DI into an AI into Sony Vegas or one of dozens of DAWs.  Even if the bass rig does not have a DI or FX out you can crock across the speaker terms and use a high level DI box.

    Dave.


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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    ecc83 said:

    IC, I do NOT mean "miccing the amp" for PA purposes. Yes, DI is the way to go, even the home recording bod will likely DI since recording bass acoustically at home is very difficult and bloody anti-social!

    BUT! For a sales demo peeps are buying the whole thing! They need to know what it sounds like. Given your encyclopaedic knowledge of guitar speakers you would I am sure think it bloody silly if the same stunt were done with a guitar amp? "What is the speaker? What TF does it sound like?? "

    True.

    ecc83 said:

    Not SO fussed about the controls. I see your point re guitar amps but a bass combo should sit on the floor for maximum  coupling.
    Still a massive pain in the backside to have the controls at the back of the top, on any small stage - even discounting the risk from drinks. And yes I know they shouldn't be put there :).

    It just seems to be a 'fashion' thing which has not been thought through properly.

    But fundamentally (pun intended ;) ) - at least from this demo - these amps simply don't sound as good as the cheap Ashdowns which must presumably be the target market. Even if chorus is less pointless than an octaver... which is debatable.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • ecc83ecc83 Frets: 1589

     Well IC! IF you were sat with a big band  you would almost certainly want any amp affront of you in which case the controls would be most 'andy! I believe some older amps had the legends 'right way up' from the back?

    It is odd though that they have gone that way. I can see the logic for the Artisan 15&30 and the drinks thing hardly matters since the chassis seals to the cab with a foam gasget and the pots are sealed types.

    The "push thru" presentation of course needs more "wood" for a given enclosure volume but I doubt such niceties figured in the design!

    Dave.

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    ecc83 said:

    The "push thru" presentation of course needs more "wood" for a given enclosure volume but I doubt such niceties figured in the design!

    That depends on whether the amp section is 'boxed' inside the cabinet - I would expect it to be for a bass amp. If so the cabinet will use a bit more material and be more complex to make, and have a smaller speaker enclosure volume, than the same thing with a slot through the top.

    If Laney use a slot-through - which they do - I would guess that's the cheapest way ;).

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24579
    ecc83 said:
    I can’t see how you could get a recording of a bass amp on a video without mic’ing it tho?


    ? ? DI into an AI into Sony Vegas or one of dozens of DAWs.  Even if the bass rig does not have a DI or FX out you can crock across the speaker terms and use a high level DI box.

    Dave.


    I meant “I don’t see how you can replicate the sound of a combo amp or head and cab and accurately reproduce what you would hear in the room” without mic’ing. 
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  • ecc83ecc83 Frets: 1589
    ecc83 said:
    I can’t see how you could get a recording of a bass amp on a video without mic’ing it tho?


    ? ? DI into an AI into Sony Vegas or one of dozens of DAWs.  Even if the bass rig does not have a DI or FX out you can crock across the speaker terms and use a high level DI box.

    Dave.


    I meant “I don’t see how you can replicate the sound of a combo amp or head and cab and accurately reproduce what you would hear in the room” without mic’ing. 


    Precisely! That is why I say the recording should have been done in a proper studio. You need a decent capacitor mic to capture bottom E, not a battered old SM57.

    As to the REPRO side? 'twas ever thus, I don't see very much point in YT vids anyway since hardy anyone listening in will have anything better than £4.99 buds.

    I harkened using AKG K92s fed from this HP laptop's soundcard which I know to actually be pretty good. I shall make a point of listening again on my Tannoy 5As later.

    In any recording situation you can only do the best you can and know the result will be mangled by J Pub.

    Dave.

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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24579
    @ecc83 - I think we are talking at cross purposes again.

    - You said why have they DI’d it as surely people want to hear it as it is
    - I’m saying you have to mic it or DI it - with a bass amp mic’ing it won’t accurately reproduce how it sounds “live in the room” anyway and it’s a pain in the bum so you might as well DI it.
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  • ecc83ecc83 Frets: 1589
    @ecc83 - I think we are talking at cross purposes again.

    - You said why have they DI’d it as surely people want to hear it as it is
    - I’m saying you have to mic it or DI it - with a bass amp mic’ing it won’t accurately reproduce how it sounds “live in the room” anyway and it’s a pain in the bum so you might as well DI it.


    Yes some wires do seem to be crossed here! Lets us take the case (as I said to ICBM) of a demo of a tasty, not cheap, GUITAR combo. WTF good would a DI recording be of that? It is a given that the speaker is an enormous factor in the sound of a guitar amp. In fact a "straight" DI out, FX send say, would sound fizzy and horrible.

    But, you can, just about, close mic a gitcab and get a reasonably idea of the sound with the (almost) industry standard SM57, It's what almost everyone has and uses.

    Now, impecunious punter still wants to know what the bass amps sound like and that includes the speaker because a bass cab is a tricky thing to make, it has to stand enormous levels of vibration and yet not add (too much) of itself to the proceedings. The speaker motor itself must be well up to the job and not hit its limit or "fart out".  We can only know these things if a suitable microphone in suitable surroundings is used and the recording overseen by someone who knows about such things. NOT likely such expertize or equipment will be found in the back of a music shop!

    Dave.

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  • BridgehouseBridgehouse Frets: 24579
    I wouldn’t buy a bass cab or combo unless I could try it live in a shop. 

    Except a barefaced cab - bought that blind but I’d heard one live before
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