Trad Amps with FX - Atomic Amplifire with FX - Or sod it all and get a Helix/LT

Boromedic

I've done a search but I'm bloody lost so needed a thread if I'm honest so I can gauge opinions. I could've gone in the Amp thread or here but thought I'd go here tbh.

I have 2 great valve amps, although one of them will be sold as I need some funds to be honest, however I'm torn between selling both and just going all digital. I was thinking when I get home of setting up my effects board with a midi switcher and using my Amplifire as an amp modeller and then depending on the gig take either my valve amp and route the board to bypass the Atomic, or take something like an active speaker for monitoring and use the Atomic DI. Thing is I also know I'd never truly be able to use a valve amp at home, so why have both?

Then after chatting to others I do have to concede that the Atomic has limitations if things sound off at the gig in terms of having to adjust on the fly, and I know I'd need seperate effects as they aren't great on the Atomic. 

So I'm thinking Helix is the solution, but I love my pedals!! My Skreddy Mayo, Mini Bi-Comp, Philosophers Tone, Timeline, Timmy, KTR, KOT, Mobius etc. surely the Helix can't sound as great as those pedals! 

So, with that in mind, any anecdote, advice, experience, help, guidance anyone can offer please, please chuck it my way and help me out!! Before I go crazy!! I have a Les Paul, a Strat, and a Wolfgang, and when I get home I want to join a covers band to get out gigging so again, the idea of a modeller is probably perfect.Tuning parallel signal paths on the Helix to use different guitars sounds perfect, that was always an issue before for me.

simonk

For gigging in a cover band the Helix is perfect. I’ve had more than my fair share of great amps and more pedals than you can shake a stick at... pretty much all gone now and I don’t miss pedals in the slightest. I’ve gigged with nothing but the Helix for well over a year now and wouldn’t go back to a traditional rig.

As for Helix not being as good as your individual pedals... well that may or may not be so. Honestly, I wouldn’t worry about it. What’s in the Helix is plenty good enough and I found it really liberating to stop worrying about the minutiae of which OD pedal sounds marginally better than the one I bought last week.

Boromedic

Cheers for that @simonk , yeah I know what you mean, it makes perfect sense tbh... However I just can't make my mind up, you're using the Yamah DXR for monitoring aren't you? Does speaker size make a difference do you know? How bulletproof is the Helix also, thing is with an amp, it will last forever with the odd repairs, buying the Helix scares me on the basis it could break and then you have nowt!

simonk

I use a QSC K8.2 as my stage monitor generally. I have a DXR10 too but it mostly lives in the studio. Both of them are great but I favour the QSC... sounds amazing, it’s bloody powerful (2000 Watts) and nicely compact on the floor in front of you.
As for reliability, I’ve had no issues. I’ve got a Floor and an LT, the Floor lives in the studio and serves as a backup and I gig the LT (it must have done a hundred or so gigs by now). Anything can go wrong, but Line6’s support from what I’ve seen on here, the Facebook page and other forums is nothing short of superb. I still take a Tech21 FlyRig to every gig as a backup, just as I did when I used amps.

Boromedic

Cool, thats great thanks Simon!

BintyTwanger77

I’ve tried a Helix, the Kemper, Fractal, Boss GT1000, and the Kemper came closest, but I still way prefer an amp and pedals. Kemper is so close to a valve amp, and as an overall package (the latest delays and reverbs are great), but the valves and pedals have it for me.

Boromedic

Oh nooooo, your ruining my vibes mannnnnn!

Only kidding, nice to have a different opinion tbh, I'm still undecided and love pedals and valves, I just don't think they're practical for me anymore. Short of buying an ox maybe....

mgaw

how will buying an OX help with pedals and valves?  good for pulling heavy things but guitars,.... i am lost

meltedbuzzbox

I own a helix lt. 
If I play my guitar I generally always go for my amp and pedals. I prefer the sound a lot more to be honest. 

However if I was to go back to the souless world of covers I would probably use my helix for laziness 

Ymmv and all that

Boromedic

mgaw said:

how will buying an OX help with pedals and valves?  good for pulling heavy things but guitars,.... i am lost

Well I do own a Les Paul?

John_A

Pretty much the same experience as Simon, haven’t gigged with a real amp in 2 years, what may appear initially as small compromises, eg you can’t use exactly the same favourite pedals, soon go out the window when you realise your live sound is much better than it’s ever been.

mines never let me down, but carry a backup just in case, but I’d do that with an amp too

Boromedic

John_A said:

Pretty much the same experience as Simon, haven’t gigged with a real amp in 2 years, what may appear initially as small compromises, eg you can’t use exactly the same favourite pedals, soon go out the window when you realise your live sound is much better than it’s ever been.

mines never let me down, but carry a backup just in case, but I’d do that with an amp too

Thanks @John_A , that's pretty reassuring to hear the same from you as well. I'm slowly but surely edging down that road! I like Simons idea of a FlyRig so will see if I can pick one of those up as/when I get out gigging again. Having only done originals before I'm excited at the prospect of getting out and doing covers. My best mate plays in heavy rock covers band and he's having a whale of a time!

tone1

@dindude has a fly rig for sale in Classifieds 

http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/139619/fs-tech-21-flyrig-plexi

Boromedic

Thanks @tone1 , I don't need one just yet so going to hang on for a wee while. Thank you for the heads up though, much appreciated

welshboyo

I've done 4 gigs this weekend with the Helix - 2 direct FOH's, 1 with my own amp in 4CM and another using the Helix direct into the front end of an AC30 as part of a supplied backline.

IMO, there is no other unit or swish pedalboard out there that is as easy to use or could accommodate such rig changes with so much ease and still sound as good.

Best bit of kit I have ever bought for gigging.

Boromedic

Cool, thanks for the info. This is something that I know Mr P Thorn loves about his, the fact he can save the same presets into different groups depending on whether you're FOH, or using an amp and just gig the same way regardless. I can definitely see the appeal of the simplicity of that feature amongst many others. 

Ahhhhhhrrrrrrgggggghhhhhh!

kennedydream1980

The biggest advantage with the Helix over the Atomic (apart from sound quality!!) is the user interface.

Which makes setting it up and tweaking it on gigs an absolute breeze.

Just to give you an overview of my Journey to using the Helix exclusively direct to the mixer.

I wasted 6 months of my life on the Atomic, I wish I had just bit the bullet and bought the Helix originally.

I made the decision about downsizing as I was fed up with carting big amps around. I went with the Atomic and tried to stick with it, but in fact I got a bit fed up with it all. I couldn’t get it to sound like I wanted and it was having a negative effect on my enjoyment of gigging.

So much so I switched back to amps briefly. I had a 2 boss Katana rig running in stereo which I loved and it sounded great, I then went back to a valve amp which was a Blackstar Artist 15 which wasn’t so great. 

I seen a Helix LT come up fairly local to me for a great price, so I decided to take a gamble back into digital world and its the best decision I’ve made. The portability and lightweight is fantastic, it sounds amazing and is consistent every single night.

I flirted briefly with the idea of having an frfr cab on stage but again I didn’t want the extra weight to cart around on gigs. So I decided to get a good quality pair of IEM headphones instead.

Its worked out so well that it has in fact inspired the bass player in my band to follow suit. He has bought a Sansamp and is ditching his head and cab and also going to use IEM’s. So there will be no cabs on stage whatsoever.

Boromedic

Cool, thanks @kennedydream1980 that's also great feedback. I think I'd like a cab onstage but don't know till I try obviously. Did you have to re-eq patches etc. for FOH and IEMs Vs having a cab onstage or just use the same?

Also does anyone find their overall band mix lacks bass when you put it all through the PA? Does it swamp the singer?

kennedydream1980

Boromedic said:

Cool, thanks @kennedydream1980 that's also great feedback. I think I'd like a cab onstage but don't know till I try obviously. Did you have to re-eq patches etc. for FOH and IEMs Vs having a cab onstage or just use the same?

Also does anyone find their overall band mix lacks bass when you put it all through the PA? Does it swamp the singer?

My front of house EQ is the same as my IEM mix. Infact because I also mix the band from stage my whole IEM mix is exactly the same as what goes out front. That way I can react to things if they need to go up or down in the mix, or I can hear if something goes wrong. 

If anything I find the band much easier to mix with the bass and guitar going direct, as I’m not fighting the cabs on stage. The mix is much cleaner.

I’ve just had to tell my drummer to ease off a bit, which he actually prefers and now he’s not fighting the guitar and bass cabs on stage, he is totally comfortable doing that. So now I can turn the drums up in the FOH mix, again it’s hard to do that when the drummer is clattering the kit and you are fighting the acoustic sound of the kit.

So overall I think it has improved our live sound both for us and the audience.

BintyTwanger77

Boromedic said:

Oh nooooo, your ruining my vibes mannnnnn!

Only kidding, nice to have a different opinion tbh, I'm still undecided and love pedals and valves, I just don't think they're practical for me anymore. Short of buying an ox maybe....

Sorry duuuuude, obviously the usual YMMV caveat applies. The workflow on the Helix is great, and it’s an amazing feat of engineering, just not for me. I have toyed again with thoughts of an FX8, though... 

Beexter

@Boromedic , I'm in a similar position but am lucky enough to have my cake and eat it. Like you, there are some pedals I am finding it hard to let go of...so I've kept them!

I also play in a covers band and use an AX8 into a DXR10 as a monitor in front of me. The only pedals I use with the AX8 are an EP boost in front (mainly for balancing input volume  between single coils and humbuckers) and an EHX Synth9 or C9 in the loop for special effects. Everything else is taken care of by the AX8. It's super quick to set up/ tear down and sounds great. It's ideal for a cover band set up as it covers such a wide range.

I do also have a valve amp which I use with either an HX Effects and a couple of drive pedals or a small analogue board with half a dozen pedals. The interface on the hx is outstanding . The AX8 takes some learning but I'm still able to make on the fly changes to settings about as easily as i could with real pedals. Setting up an entirely new "rig" from scratch isn't something I'd want to do on the fly (but then i wouldn't do that with real pedals either) but you could do it fairly easily on the Helix.

Having said all of the above, it's the digital rig that gets pretty well all the gig time due to consistently good sound, flexibility and portability so I'd say there's not much to fear.

I just carry a POD2 as backup, just in case.