Another 'which Marshall?' thread... (Also, which cab?)

SteveF

I'm in a bit of a quandary.   I'm after a smallish valve amp for rocky stuff.  It will be used in the house, but I'd like it to be giggable too.  I'd like something with switchable power reduction and a series effects loop.  Not necessarily fussed about 1 or 2 channels; I have plenty of options for clean/gain.  I have a Blues Deluxe and could run a 2 amp type setup with the Fender for cleans and the new amp just for dirt.  I also have plenty of pedals so could use OD/distortion pedals for the dirty sounds.

 I'm currently 'settled' on either the DSL 20W head or the Origin 20W head.  They both seem to tick the boxes that I need to be ticked.  I have owned an older type DSL head and combo in the past and liked them.  The combo had a parallel effects loop that I didn't like, so modded it but they seem to have sorted this with the new models.  The lower power mode is a welcome addition, but I see that the Origin has the ability to go lower than the DSL (~0.5W v 10W).  I realise that amp power and volume isn't a linear relationship, so in practice, how much more is the Origin "crankable" at bedroom levels? 

I love GnR, Whitesnake, ACDC, Van Halen, etc, so if one is more suited to that type of stuff then it could be a deciding factor.  

Second question is what speaker/cab to put the amp through?  I have been looking at these as they look pretty good value: 

Peavey 1x12 Black Guitar Cab with Celestion Greenback

Peavey 1x12 Tweed Guitar Cab with Celestion Vintage 30

I feel like a Greenback or V30 are the obvious options, but probably for good reason.  I'd be interested to hear any other thoughts though. (Same with the amps.  I'm not completely married to a Marshall, so other recommendations received gratefully.) 

Budgetwise, I'd like the upper limit to be around £700 for the head and cab. 

TTBZ

I'd go DSL for that kinda stuff I think, you'll probably need a boost to get the right saturation for the more 80s stuff with an Origin - perfect for ACDC though. Either amp sounds great through Greenbacks

SteveF

Yeah, I did think the Origin might be good for ACDC.  I do have a couple of decent boost pedals, ZVex SHO and Keeley Katana clones.  Definitely thinking greenbacks over V30s? 

ICBM

Orange Brent Hinds Terror.

It’s a Rocker 15 Terror revoiced to be more ‘Marshally’, 15W or 7W, 1W or 1/2W (done with ‘virtual’ power reduction as I think most of these are), series FX loop.

I would avoid a V30 for very low-volume playing, they’re one of the speakers that needs to be pushed a bit harder or they sound stiff and nasal. A Greenback or a G12H-30, or one of the Creambacks, would be better.

SteveF

Interesting.  Someone else mentioned this amp to me as well.  I figured it would be a bit more "metal' sounding, given the chap with the face tattoo. 

ICBM

SteveF said:

Interesting.  Someone else mentioned this amp to me as well.  I figured it would be a bit more "metal' sounding, given the chap with the face tattoo. 

It’s not - just a slightly brasher version of the normal Orange Rocker sound. The guitarist in my band has one, as well as a Rocker 30. We play punky garage-rock type stuff, not metal - to be fair, I did mod it slightly so it sounds closer to the R30, but that was for EQ not gain. We both thought it sounded better than the standard Rocker 15 Terror in the Orange demo video.

He uses Marshall 2x12”s with either Greenback/G12H-30 or Creamback M65/H75s.

It comes with a nice padded gig bag too.

SteveF

Anything wrong with these cabs?  Seems ridiculously cheap? 

https://www.thomann.de/gb/palmer_pcab112gbk.htm?ref=prod_rel_286453_0

EDIT:  Ah, it doesn't say in the description, but in the equivalent V30 model, it says it's Chipboard construction with MDF soundboard.  Presumably that will have some negative effect on the sound over the ply construction of the Peavey cab.  Looks like the Peavey also has panels so you can convert between open/closed back. 

SteveF

ICBM said:

SteveF said:

Interesting.  Someone else mentioned this amp to me as well.  I figured it would be a bit more "metal' sounding, given the chap with the face tattoo. 

It’s not - just a slightly brasher version of the normal Orange Rocker sound. The guitarist in my band has one, as well as a Rocker 30. We play punky garage-rock type stuff, not metal - to be fair, I did mod it slightly so it sounds closer to the R30, but that was for EQ not gain. We both thought it sounded better than the standard Rocker 15 Terror in the Orange demo video.

He uses Marshall 2x12”s with either Greenback/G12H-30 or Creamback M65/H75s.

It comes with a nice padded gig bag too.

Great stuff ICBM, thanks. It's now in the list.  One to consider for sure.  (Sounds daft, but I'm not sold on the looks, but I can probably get over that if it's going to sound great).  Given the difference in price, how does it compare to the DSL (or how does the DSL compare to it)?  I assume its closer to that sort of sound than the Origin. 

ICBM

SteveF said:

Great stuff ICBM, thanks. It's now in the list.  One to consider for sure.  (Sounds daft, but I'm not sold on the looks, but I can probably get over that if it's going to sound great).  Given the difference in price, how does it compare to the DSL (or how does the DSL compare to it)?  I assume its closer to that sort of sound than the Origin. 

It's somewhere between the two, I think - not having played the Origin yet - more gain than the Origin seems to have, but less fizz and a bit thicker than the DSL.

I agree about the styling... I much prefer heads with wooden shells, not least for protection - the most common non-valve problem on any Orange Terror is broken switches - and I think they look a bit ugly. But it does make them small and light.

The build quality is a bit better than the Marshalls - although the new DSLs are by no means bad, there are still a few component choice let-downs - the pots particularly. The Origin appears to use better ones.

musteatbrain

If the Orange doesn’t float your boat and if you have budget for a DSL or 2525 Mini Jubilee, I’d strongly recommend the Jubilee over the DSL for what you want.

I struggled to dial my mini Jubilee in at home at first, but once I since I set it right I’ve never had to change the settings other than adjust presence for different guitars and volume.

With a Les Paul it sounds just like the GNR Use Your Illusion tones.
I also spent about £50 on an old digitech unit just for a bit of reverb.
At first I thought it was a bit too bright and fizzy at low volume, but using the digitech as a master volume control in the loop works much better than the amp’s master volumes for home practice. I don’t know why. Technically it makes no sense

fastonebaz

@SteveF ; I bought a dsl40r this year.  This is mine,  just amp with a touch of reverb so you get a feel for how it sounds

TTBZ

The new DSL 'R' models are way better than the previous iteration, you can actually use the presence and treble controls now rather than roll them off and hope it still doesn't take your head off with the brightness and fizz. The channels balance better. I had a Mini Jubilee and it's an awesome amp but don't know if I'll pay the premium for one again after trying out the DSL properly.

SteveF

\m/ (><) \m/  

I had the old 40W combo and loved it at the time.  I'm definitely intending on head/cab this time though.  

SteveF

musteatbrain said:

If the Orange doesn’t float your boat and if you have budget for a DSL or 2525 Mini Jubilee, I’d strongly recommend the Jubilee over the DSL for what you want.

I struggled to dial my mini Jubilee in at home at first, but once I since I set it right I’ve never had to change the settings other than adjust presence for different guitars and volume.

With a Les Paul it sounds just like the GNR Use Your Illusion tones.
I also spent about £50 on an old digitech unit just for a bit of reverb.
At first I thought it was a bit too bright and fizzy at low volume, but using the digitech as a master volume control in the loop works much better than the amp’s master volumes for home practice. I don’t know why. Technically it makes no sense

A tad more than I want to spend at this point.  That's putting me up to nearly 900 for the head/cab and is best part of twice the price of the DSL. 

musteatbrain

Actually I may be being unfair on the new DSL.
I tried it through the standard Jubilee cab and speaker. It was an A/B test with the Jubilee, but I’m forgetting I’ve probably formed my Jubilee opinion from my personal use since then and that involves an oversized 2x12 with vintage greenbacks in it and the DSL would probably sound great through that.

either way, with an MJW for clean too, I’m done amp shopping

ICBM

musteatbrain said:

Actually I may be being unfair on the new DSL.
I tried it through the standard Jubilee cab and speaker. It was an A/B test with the Jubilee, but I’m forgetting I’ve probably formed my Jubilee opinion from my personal use since then and that involves an oversized 2x12 with vintage greenbacks in it and the DSL would probably sound great through that.

This is very important - I just mentioned it in another thread too. You can't properly compare amps unless you use the same speakers/cab. It's actually easily possible for a 'worse' amp to sound better than a 'better' amp, if the 'worse' amp is going through a better cab.

I would never trust the standard speaker in any modern Marshall amp to bring out the best in it - every single one I've ever heard is poor compared to any of the standard classic Celestion models or the best new ones.

TTBZ

musteatbrain said:

Actually I may be being unfair on the new DSL.
I tried it through the standard Jubilee cab and speaker. It was an A/B test with the Jubilee, but I’m forgetting I’ve probably formed my Jubilee opinion from my personal use since then and that involves an oversized 2x12 with vintage greenbacks in it and the DSL would probably sound great through that.

either way, with an MJW for clean too, I’m done amp shopping

I a/b'd them both through my Jubilee combo's greenback speaker - I do think the jubilee has a bit more character to it and the EQ is super responsive but the DSL gets you a good Marshall tone of a similar vein I think. BUT I don't really like the jubilee with greenback as much as I did with the V30 or Creamback. I'm going to have to do more testing before I make up my mind when I'm in a position to buy again my cab's loaded with a V30 and a Creamback H at the minute.

musteatbrain

My greenbacks are a mix of 55 and 75hz which made a difference and smooths things a little. Definitely preferred that combo to golds

SteveF

I'm still swithering over the Origin too.  I have, or can build, pretty much any type of OD/dist pedal to go with it, so I'm feeling like a the single channel one might be the way to go.  Gah, the indecision!  

SteveF

ICBM said:

musteatbrain said:

Actually I may be being unfair on the new DSL.
I tried it through the standard Jubilee cab and speaker. It was an A/B test with the Jubilee, but I’m forgetting I’ve probably formed my Jubilee opinion from my personal use since then and that involves an oversized 2x12 with vintage greenbacks in it and the DSL would probably sound great through that.

This is very important - I just mentioned it in another thread too. You can't properly compare amps unless you use the same speakers/cab. It's actually easily possible for a 'worse' amp to sound better than a 'better' amp, if the 'worse' amp is going through a better cab.

I would never trust the standard speaker in any modern Marshall amp to bring out the best in it - every single one I've ever heard is poor compared to any of the standard classic Celestion models or the best new ones.

This is pretty much why I wanted to go the head/cab route after reason you post something similar in another thread. 

musteatbrain

SteveF said:

I'm still swithering over the Origin too.  I have, or can build, pretty much any type of OD/dist pedal to go with it, so I'm feeling like a the single channel one might be the way to go.  Gah, the indecision!  

I’d treat the jubilee as a single channel amp too.
It’s not too far off a single channel with multiple volume controls really.