Valves amplifying digital signal.

fftc

Is there any benefit of using a valve amp to amplify a digital signal?

Maynehead

You won't be amplifying a digital signal (unless you're doing something VERY weird) What I'm assuming you're doing is amplifying an analog signal generated by a digital signal processor.

That's kind of like asking "is there any benefit in putting cheap petrol into a Ferrari?" Well, yeah, cos it's still going to go faster than a Nissan Micra with the same cheap petrol in it...

guitarfishbay

If you're talking about using a traditional guitar cabinet then yes, there can be.  I have both a Matrix GT1000FX solid state power amp and a Mesa 2:90 valve power amp, the Mesa poweramp has a different dynamic response and feels more punchy to me to play through.  It does weigh multiple times more than the Matrix, and both can get louder than I'd ever need, so it depends on what your goals and your budget are

Sporky

fftc said:

Is there any benefit of using a valve amp to amplify a digital signal?

This isn't much of a question.

Benefit compared to what?

Is it a good valve amp, or a crap one?

What's the signal? If you mean (for example)  SPDIF, then probably not. If you mean the analogue output of a digital processor then there might be.

Having something digital in the signal chain doesn't result in a massive, irreparable loss of mojo because mojo is not part of the signal chain.

fftc

Yeah, sorry. Lack of understanding the whys and wherefores both prompted the question and reduced its effectiveness!

OK. If a valve amp is chosen for its analoguey goodness, does its goodness get reduced by firing a digitally processed analogue signal through it? Does it not amplify all the digitalness?
If the digital processing produced the results you are after wouldn't it be better to amplify that with the least colouring amp available? And then you don't have to put up with all the drawbacks of valve amps?

Sporky

There is no universal "digital sound". An Eventide H3000 doesn't sound like an Alesis Bitrman.

Digital does not sound worse than analogue. Anyone who says it does is trying to sell you something you don't need. Some digital things sound better or worse for some applications than some analogue things. 

If what you like is something digital into something with valves then grand. If you like a valve preamp into a Line 6 Spider then more power to you. 

ICBM

If you think that digital sounds artificial and valves sound warm, surely it would be better to run the digital signal into a valve amp to make it sound warmer, than a solid-state amp which will cleanly amplify it without warming it up?

fftc

I suppose it depends on the digital processing that is going on, but why would you harness the power of digital to create a cold and artificial sound? Unless cold and artificial is what you are after, in which case you wouldn't want to 'warm' it up with valves anyway!

Sporky

I'd suggest spending less time sniffing the cork, and more time tasting the wine... 

normula1

Unless like the bottle I opened last night after saving it for 6 months turns out to be corked.....
But normally, yes drink the stuff........ along with nice bit of cheese.

viz

Sporky said:

Having something digital in the signal chain doesn't result in a massive, irreparable loss of mojo because mojo is not part of the signal chain.

Wait so where does the mojo go?

ICBM

viz said:

Sporky said:

Having something digital in the signal chain doesn't result in a massive, irreparable loss of mojo because mojo is not part of the signal chain.

Wait so where does the mojo go?

It goes down the outside of the cable due to the Faraday effect. Mojo is an analogue property, so when it reaches the digital pedal, it flows around the outside of the enclosure and rejoins the signal path at the output jack hence retaining the mojo.

This is why plastic pedals like the Ibanez TS-5 don't have mojo, because the plastic casing breaks the mojo path despite the circuit inside being identical to the metal-cased TS-9. There must also be no plastic-bodied PCB-mounted jacks because they break the mojo path and stop it getting to the casing.

Shakeproof washers are also thought to affect the mojo path, which is why so many boutique pedals don't have them.

digitalscream

To try to answer the original question...I have a Helix LT, and a Matrix NL212 guitar cab. I've tried two different amps between them - a 50W valve R&R SOLO (using the power section only), and a solid state Rocktron Velocity 120.

Traditional wisdom says the following:

1 - The Rocktron will be nowhere near as loud as the R&R
2 - The Rocktron will sound nowhere near as good/warm/authentic as the R&R

Tradition wisdom is...wrong on both counts. At least, for all practical uses, the Rocktron has more than enough headroom to play over our band (and to be heard clearly when playing solos). In terms of "sound nowhere near as good"...nah, it's just not there to my ears. There's no "digitalness" to be heard with either amp, and while there's a bit more top end with the Rocktron, that's about the only difference I can discern.

ICBM

One of the warmest-sounding amps I’ve ever heard - if there is any way of quantifying such a thing - is an original Vox T60.

Which is the first commercially-produced solid-state amp...

digitalscream

Oh, and for what it's worth...I had a H&K Tubemeister 18 for a while with the same rig, and it sounded flat and lifeless compared to the other two.

I think a good power amp is far more important than whether it's got glass bottles in it, to be honest.

As a case in point, I'm currently looking at the Camplifier Guitar Brick 180 - if it does what it says on the tin, it's going to solve all my problems in one go. Good amp, plenty of headroom into 8 ohms (unlike the SD Powerstage 170), small enough to fit in the rucksack I use for the Helix and only weighs 1kg.

guitarfishbay

digitalscream said:

To try to answer the original question...I have a Helix LT, and a Matrix NL212 guitar cab. I've tried two different amps between them - a 50W valve R&R SOLO (using the power section only), and a solid state Rocktron Velocity 120.

Traditional wisdom says the following:

1 - The Rocktron will be nowhere near as loud as the R&R
2 - The Rocktron will sound nowhere near as good/warm/authentic as the R&R

Tradition wisdom is...wrong on both counts. At least, for all practical uses, the Rocktron has more than enough headroom to play over our band (and to be heard clearly when playing solos). In terms of "sound nowhere near as good"...nah, it's just not there to my ears. There's no "digitalness" to be heard with either amp, and while there's a bit more top end with the Rocktron, that's about the only difference I can discern.

I can believe that.

But the 2:90 I have with deep engaged can do things I can’t get my GT1000FX to do.