Any P4, fourths tuning players?

GuyBoden

After playing in standard tuning for 30 years, I decided to try playing P4 fourths tuning, that was about 4 years and I found many advantages and disadvantages, I play 7 string guitar tuned E A D G C F Bb

Any other P4 players?

Tom Quayle is one of my fav P4 player:

Fazer

i tune in 4ths

monquixote

After playing a lot of bass the idea appeals because I like that the shapes are the same all over the neck, but I don't really have the time to relearn everything.

GuyBoden

Fazer said:

i tune in 4ths

How long have you been playing P4, how are you finding it?

Col_Decker

Tuning in P4ths? What is this dark magiks you speak of?

close2u

The Scientist, in 4ths

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8Ls9RYmlEU

GuyBoden

This is me playing in P4:

GuyBoden

For 7 string P4 tuning,  I use this system to visualise the whole fretboard , it uses 3 child patterns that make 7 parent patterns that make the whole fretboard:

Kebabkid

I believe Alex Hutchings (Roland/Boss demos) does this too.

GuyBoden

Kebabkid said:

I believe Alex Hutchings (Roland/Boss demos) does this too.

Thanks, I'll have to give him a listen.

Fazer

GuyBoden said:

Fazer said:

i tune in 4ths

How long have you been playing P4, how are you finding it?

been playing it for many many years, soon after i started playing and had the idea to try it out after thinking about the simplicity of it.
at the time there wasnt any info on it that i knew about, i just mapped it out and went ahead with it.

i play original music or my own arrangements so i dont have to worry about being able to play other people's 'normal' tuning.

it can be more difficult to play full string strumming, without the oct/5th on the top 2 strings bar, but apart from that its all pluses

it did cross my mind to try out a 7 string with an additional low B and then E-F for the rest, but i havent got around to it yet.
perhaps i'll try B-C on a 6string first

ChrisMusic

@Kebabkid is absolutely right, Alex Hutchings does use fourths tuning on both his 6 string and 8 string guitars.

Fabulous player, did anyone get to talk to him at the GB Guitar Show in Birmingham?

Or even better, did you get to see him play on the Sunday, just spectacular !

@Fazer gave me some advice about this some months ago (thanks Fazer), but I am still procrastinating about taking the plunge, my 6 stringers remain resolutely tuned standard.  I am not sure if I dare use both tunings simultaneously?

However my 8 string is tuned in fourths.  There are many valid but different ways you can approach an 8 string from a tuning point of view, but P4 seems a very logical solution.

Nice diagrams GuyBoden, very useful too.

One thing that becomes very apparent when you put an 8 string in P4, is that you get a repeat of the pattern from the bass strings one fret up on the top string.  What that means is that there is just one pattern, which just keeps on going or rolling over.  Map it out over 15 strings if you don't believe me, then it is really obvious.

You just change where in that one pattern you start depending on key or mode.  It is just so logical.  That easily maps back to 7 or 6 strings too, when you look at it that way.

I approach standard tuning with this pattern and make an adjustment for the wretched major third kink from 3rd to 2nd strings.  It would be *so nice* to loose that forever.

So I will finish with a question, GuyBoden started this discussion saying "I found many advantages and disadvantages".

One disadvantage is finding extended range chord voicings, especially across 8 strings, but limited enough on 6 strings to have made me hesitate in making a full transition.  Any help or advice on that would be gratefully appreciated.

What would you say are the advantages and disadvantages more specifically, and what are the best ways around them, or of adapting your playing to accommodate them?

GuyBoden

You've
Disadvantages

ChrisMusic said:

@Kebabkid is absolutely right, Alex Hutchings does use fourths tuning on both his 6 string and 8 string guitars.

Fabulous player, did anyone get to talk to him at the GB Guitar Show in Birmingham?

Or even better, did you get to see him play on the Sunday, just spectacular !

@Fazer gave me some advice about this some months ago (thanks Fazer), but I am still procrastinating about taking the plunge, my 6 stringers remain resolutely tuned standard.  I am not sure if I dare use both tunings simultaneously?

However my 8 string is tuned in fourths.  There are many valid but different ways you can approach an 8 string from a tuning point of view, but P4 seems a very logical solution.

Nice diagrams GuyBoden, very useful too.

One thing that becomes very apparent when you put an 8 string in P4, is that you get a repeat of the pattern from the bass strings one fret up on the top string.  What that means is that there is just one pattern, which just keeps on going or rolling over.  Map it out over 15 strings if you don't believe me, then it is really obvious.

You just change where in that one pattern you start depending on key or mode.  It is just so logical.  That easily maps back to 7 or 6 strings too, when you look at it that way.

I approach standard tuning with this pattern and make an adjustment for the wretched major third kink from 3rd to 2nd strings.  It would be *so nice* to loose that forever.

So I will finish with a question, GuyBoden started this discussion saying "I found many advantages and disadvantages".

One disadvantage is finding extended range chord voicings, especially across 8 strings, but limited enough on 6 strings to have made me hesitate in making a full transition.  Any help or advice on that would be gratefully appreciated.

What would you say are the advantages and disadvantages more specifically, and what are the best ways around them, or of adapting your playing to accommodate them?

Yes, you've found the advantages, symmetry for playing riffs, scales and chords. Faster learning new ideas.

Disadvantages:

Relearning the fretboard.
You loose all of the folk type open chords.
Rock'n'Roll riffs are much harder to play, example: Chuck Berry's Johnny be Good.
Some chords with extensions are more difficult to finger, because the extensions on the high strings are a fret lower, example CMaj7#11.
You loose all of your standard rock riffs, the ones you've been playing for years on the treble strings.

GuyBoden

It's a big advantage, when you can see that the complete fretboard for a Major key is made from only these three Major patterns, either partially or as a whole.



 Follow the pattern start at the "1", when you get to the next "1", change to the next pattern's "1" and then change to the next pattern at "1".

DavidRees

Deirdre Cartwright, London based jazz guitarist and all round fabulous musician has been P4 for about 20 years I think ...

http://www.deirdrecartwright.com/

there is also Ant Law

http://www.antlaw.co.uk/

GuyBoden

Yes, well remembered, Deidre Cartwright from the early 80s Rock School program, she was one of the first P4 players I knew about, she's a very, very good player.  Stanley Jordan's tapping on P4 was the first player I saw play P4.

ChrisMusic

So Guy, did you make a clean break from standard tuning and just go straight in the deep end with P4 or did you run both tunings simultaneously?  Do you still use standard currently at all?  Any good strategies for the change over?

I am wondering if it is possible to think creatively in both.  The obvious dissonance of a miscalculated finger is a bit of a concern with that strategy.  What do you think?

GuyBoden

ChrisMusic said:

So Guy, did you make a clean break from standard tuning and just go straight in the deep end with P4 or did you run both tunings simultaneously?  Do you still use standard currently at all?  Any good strategies for the change over?

I am wondering if it is possible to think creatively in both.  The obvious dissonance of a miscalculated finger is a bit of a concern with that strategy.  What do you think?

I jumped into the deep end, I changed completely to 6 string P4 for about 6 nightmare months then moved to 7 string P4. I don't use standard tuning at all, I'd get very confused because I visualise the complete P4 fretboard.

ChrisMusic

Hmmm, thanks Guy, that is pretty much what I figured, a bit all or nothing.

I was hoping that the 8 string in fourths is different enough as an instrument to allow me to keep a grip on both tunings.  My 6 string bass is in fourths anyway too so I may stick with the concept of both P4 & standard for a while longer.  I really do need to move a 6 string guitar over to P4 for a while.  I'll report back if it works out OK or if I have to bite the bullet and conform to only one.  Thanks for your advice.

ChrisMusic

Oh, and I should have asked, what are your opinions about string gauges and getting an even tension for P4 ?

GuyBoden

A normal set for 6 string, but adjust the intonation. For 8 string, I don't know.