Young Doctors

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RabsRabs Frets: 2602
in Off Topic tFB Trader

Im not much for doctors, no one is really, I mean that in the way of the doctors is like a last resort for me I rarely go....

BUT ive had to go twice over the last couple of months and both times I went I saw a different doctor and each time they have been like 25 years old at the most.

While I know they obviously have the medical training I really have to wonder about the advice the can give you and how helpful it actually is just because of their age and lack of experience..  While im no doctor I have been alive for over 20 years more than them and have probably seen way more than they have at this stage. Like the way the body ages and changes you go though, you can only really understand stuff like that when you have been through it. Everyone is so different and reacts differently. The other thing is you see a different doctor each time you go these days they don't get to know you which I don't like. I had the same doctor from when I was born until he retired about 8 years ago, im just not used to this (I know, I know, its the NHS issues and overpopulation, but im just not used it).

So today I went because I have been experiencing really bad dizziness and general light headedness for almost a week now..  I think this is because of stress.. Basically without going in to too much detail and among other big issues going on, my father has been fighting cancer for the last few years and has come to the end now.. The last few months have been the most awful thing I have ever experienced and really its been bad since about February and I think I have had all I can take. I have stress in my face, I mainly feel like im deeply frowning all of the time and its getting nasty now, im either doing that or gritting my teeth.

She basically said that she agreed that she thought it was stress and all she could offer was that I should change my lifestyle to do more stuff like go for walks and offered if I wanted some counselling (which I may try).

In sitting here I was wondering if I should maybe even go for a second opinion...  Can I really trust someone who has been doing the job for such little time?


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  • FosterFoster Frets: 1100
    This is a piss take, right?
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  • RabsRabs Frets: 2602
    edited October 2018 tFB Trader

    Really not...

    And im not sure why you would say that?

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  • FosterFoster Frets: 1100
    But you were happy enough with your previous Dr. I'm guessing he was also 25 at one point in his life too.
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  • RabsRabs Frets: 2602
    edited October 2018 tFB Trader
    Foster said:
    But you were happy enough with your previous Dr. I'm guessing he was also 25 at one point in his life too.


    Yes... Because I had seen him my whole life.. He knew me and my story and what my medical conditions were... And while im sure he was young once, he wasn't when I knew him and yes, because I knew him so long and he was my whole families doctor I trusted him..

    Now what I am faced with is seeing a different doctor every time, someone who doesn't know me at all and to me looks so young I had to wonder how much she actually knew...

    I guess I must be in a really bad place to question this then?

    Forget I said anything.

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  • Unfortunately this is the future of healthcare.  Inexperienced, poorly trained juniors. Its not their fault. However as a doctor trained under the old system of 120 hour weeks it was inhumane and caused many personal problems for myself and the majority of my colleagues.

    I would say, whilst it may be stress, thats a diagnosis to make with conditions such as dizziness after an exhaustive physical examination plus or  minus investigations.  

    I am sure that counselling will be very helpful as you have been in a tough situation

    My advice is if you ever leave a consult with me unhappy i would ask you to see someone else

    Good luck and I am sorry about your Dad
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  • Rabs said:

    While I know they obviously have the medical training I really have to wonder about the advice the can give you and how helpful it actually is just because of their age and lack of experience..  While im no doctor I have been alive for over 20 years more than them and have probably seen way more than they have at this stage. Like the way the body ages and changes you go though, you can only really understand stuff like that when you have been through it. Everyone is so different and reacts differently. The other thing is you see a different doctor each time you go these days they don't get to know you which I don't like. I had the same doctor from when I was born until he retired about 8 years ago, im just not used to this (I know, I know, its the NHS issues and overpopulation, but im just not used it).

    So today I went because I have been experiencing really bad dizziness and general light headedness for almost a week now..  I think this is because of stress.. Basically without going in to too much detail and among other big issues going on, my father has been fighting cancer for the last few years and has come to the end now.. The last few months have been the most awful thing I have ever experienced and really its been bad since about February and I think I have had all I can take. I have stress in my face, I mainly feel like im deeply frowning all of the time and its getting nasty now, im either doing that or gritting my teeth.

    She basically said that she agreed that she thought it was stress and all she could offer was that I should change my lifestyle to do more stuff like go for walks and offered if I wanted some counselling (which I may try).

    In sitting here I was wondering if I should maybe even go for a second opinion...  Can I really trust someone who has been doing the job for such little time?



    These young doctors also see things you haven't. They have experience in ways that go beyond your experience. What's more they see folk of your age every day with a myriad of conditions, situations, psychological and emotional and physical states etc etc. 

    You might find an older doctor less helpful than a young one. There's simply no way of telling. 

    So really I would think less about the age of the doctor and more about your situation. Your father's sad journey has obviously been a huge load on you, as it would for most people. Stress can utterly fuck people. It sounds like you have far more going on besides your father so you need to find a way to let some of that out. 






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  • Rabs said:

    Now what I am faced with is seeing a different doctor every time, someone who doesn't know me at all and to me looks so young I had to wonder how much she actually knew...

    I guess I must be in a really bad place to question this then?

    Forget I said anything.

    I'm loathe to go amateur psychologist but you're spending more time on this thread talking about doctors than the difficult things in your life. So in a way I'd agree that you are in a bad place although not perhaps quite as you meant. So what are the difficulties in your life? 



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  • ShrewsShrews Frets: 2959
    Rab, sent you a pm.  
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  • RabsRabs Frets: 2602
    tFB Trader
    Unfortunately this is the future of healthcare.  Inexperienced, poorly trained juniors. Its not their fault. However as a doctor trained under the old system of 120 hour weeks it was inhumane and caused many personal problems for myself and the majority of my colleagues.

    I would say, whilst it may be stress, thats a diagnosis to make with conditions such as dizziness after an exhaustive physical examination plus or  minus investigations.  

    I am sure that counselling will be very helpful as you have been in a tough situation

    My advice is if you ever leave a consult with me unhappy i would ask you to see someone else

    Good luck and I am sorry about your Dad


    Thanks...  I didn't post this for sympathy..  I know we all go through stuff like this and its just part of life.. But I think anyone who has been through this will understand how bad things get towards the end and thus understand what sort of stress this is..

    The thing is that ive seen two doctors there now.. Both really young.. The first time I actually didn't have an issue with what was said but it was a more basic straight forward issue.

    With whats going on with me at the moment, I know it could be stress, but I also know you can get dizzy for other more serious reasons which wasn't even mentioned today. Like heart issues stuff like that. She did check my blood pressure (twice for some reason?) but said it was ok... I do apparently have low foliate levels which means I need to eat more greens (don't we all :) ) .

    Maybe im just being paranoid.. I donno...   She just didn't look too sure when I asked what it could be..

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  • strtdvstrtdv Frets: 2356
    edited October 2018
    If they did the whole consultation by themselves without going out to check with someone then the chances are they were at least 27-28.

    GP training is short but it's not so short you can be finished by 25.

    I agree GP training is too short though, I think it's 4 years post foundation programme, which when you think of the breadth they need to cover is crazy.

    I'm a relative generalist by hospital doctor standards and will only be "fully qualified" (if there is such a thing) at 32 (I'm 31 now).

    You can ask for a second opinion although the likelihood of you getting anything other than a 10 minute slot with an equally young doctor is probably quite low.

    Nothing wrong with youth though, a lot of them are very good and practise more evidence based medicine than some of the older doctors. I do agree with @Blaendulais that dizziness usually requires a decent physical examination to reliably diagnose the cause, although what people mean by "dizziness" can vary considerably and may not necessarily be what a doctor would regard as dizziness.

    Robot Lords of Tokyo, SMILE TASTE KITTENS!
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  • SporkySporky Frets: 27588
    Rabs said:

    She did check my blood pressure (twice for some reason?) 
    Some people get awfully anxious about tests, so checking BP twice isn't a bad plan at all. Especially as it was already established that you're pretty stressed. :) 
    "[Sporky] brings a certain vibe and dignity to the forum."
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  • EricTheWearyEricTheWeary Frets: 16254
    Assuming they’ve gone through education at normal ages you can’t become a GP in the U.K. until you are 28. Perhaps they’ve listened to their own advice so they keep young and healthy looking. 
    GPs are generally clever people who have come from relatively privileged backgrounds so I don’t have a lot in common with them anyway. 

    When I was a Probation Officer I often got the you can’t understand if you haven’t been a drug abuser/ shoplifter/ domestic violence perpetrator/ sex offender type answers. My life would have been a lot different had I done all those things. Hopefully I was professional, used my professional knowledge and skills and did my best to be empathetic with people from diverse backgrounds. I’d want my GP to do likewise.
    Possibly the best doctor to deal with I’ve encountered was my son’s specialist who was a middle aged man from Malaysia who managed to bridge the gap to a 14 year old white boy from Dudley with no problem. 
    Tipton is a small fishing village in the borough of Sandwell. 
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  • RabsRabs Frets: 2602
    tFB Trader
    strtdv said:
    If they did the whole consultation by themselves without going out to check with someone then the chances are they were at least 27-28.

    GP training is short but it's not so short you can be finished by 25.

    I agree GP training is too short though, I think it's 4 years post foundation programme, which when you think of the breadth they need to cover is crazy.

    I'm a relative generalist by hospital doctor standards and will only be "fully qualified" (if there is such a thing) at 32 (I'm 31 now).

    You can ask for a second opinion although the likelihood of you getting anything other than a 10 minute slot with an equally young doctor is probably quite low.

    Nothing wrong with youth though, a lot of them are very good and practise more evidence based medicine than some of the older doctors. I do agree with @Blaendulais that dizziness usually requires a decent physical examination to reliably diagnose the cause, although what people mean by "dizziness" can vary considerably and may not necessarily be what a doctor would regard as dizziness.


    Thanks..   And im not knocking the training... I do get the situation we are in and why they do it.  As I said im just so not used it after having the same doctor all my life till 8 years ago.

    And she did say that if the room isn't spinning that its not what she would call dizziness..  But when I get out of bed and almost fall to the floor cos of it, I don't know what else to call it.. Apart from that I just generally feel light headed and get the out bout where I feel proper dizzy, if im standing when that happens I need to lean on something or I will fall over.

    Its just that for what I have, I don't think it can be generalised. Something that I do think needs experience to diagnose properly which I don't really think happened today. But I also know im not a doctor and not really in my right mind at the moment which is why I guess I started this thread.

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  • EricTheWearyEricTheWeary Frets: 16254
    ...and take up the offer on the counselling. 
    Tipton is a small fishing village in the borough of Sandwell. 
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  • RabsRabs Frets: 2602
    edited October 2018 tFB Trader
    Rabs said:

    Now what I am faced with is seeing a different doctor every time, someone who doesn't know me at all and to me looks so young I had to wonder how much she actually knew...

    I guess I must be in a really bad place to question this then?

    Forget I said anything.

    I'm loathe to go amateur psychologist but you're spending more time on this thread talking about doctors than the difficult things in your life. So in a way I'd agree that you are in a bad place although not perhaps quite as you meant. So what are the difficulties in your life? 


    Too much to list..  And its not just about now but like the last 8 years or so in my life its been one thing after another and included..

    Deaths

    Redundancies

    Divorce

    Almost died twice when my appendix exploded

    Starting and trying to run my own business for which the last 8 months I have had no time for and now don't know whats going to happen with that any more

    But recently, and mainly my dad..  My mum who has the beginnings of dementia and this whole thing has made her way worse. We also found out my sister has MS this year.  Also in the last year I have been helping out one of my oldest and best friends. He suffers from deep depression, proper suicidal... Ive been helping him by going to open mic night and he performs which we had been doing weekly for a while now.. In august his mum died from cancer, a month later his dad was diagnosed with cancer.. Sunday just gone, he phoned me up and told me he has now just been diagnosed with cancer..  and its already spread to his lungs..

    Add to that.. dealing with the NHS system.. Dealing with all my dads affairs  as he cant any more, all the crap we all have to deal with in every day life and having no time to do anything else with my life for myself.

    And that's not everything, by far. 

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  • RabsRabs Frets: 2602
    tFB Trader
    ...and take up the offer on the counselling. 

    Yes.  I think I should.. But I have heard it can take a month or so to get an appointment depending on local capacity..
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  • My friend (!) tells me counselling can help us think differently about these things and he has found it helpful :)
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  • RabsRabs Frets: 2602
    tFB Trader
     

    These young doctors also see things you haven't. They have experience in ways that go beyond your experience. What's more they see folk of your age every day with a myriad of conditions, situations, psychological and emotional and physical states etc etc. 

    You might find an older doctor less helpful than a young one. There's simply no way of telling. 

    So really I would think less about the age of the doctor and more about your situation. Your father's sad journey has obviously been a huge load on you, as it would for most people. Stress can utterly fuck people. It sounds like you have far more going on besides your father so you need to find a way to let some of that out. 




    No I do get that medically they know way more than I ever will.. BUT in this case I just think that there could be other conditions that cause dizziness but she didn't seem to even offer anything else up which is what made me question the whole thing. I don't know what they actually are as im not a doctor apart from I know some heart conditions can cause that. But im sure there are other things too.

    I guess I can always go back and ask for someone else.. I think I will wait a bit and see what happens this week first. And look in to the counselling thing.

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  • EricTheWearyEricTheWeary Frets: 16254
    Rabs said:
     

    These young doctors also see things you haven't. They have experience in ways that go beyond your experience. What's more they see folk of your age every day with a myriad of conditions, situations, psychological and emotional and physical states etc etc. 

    You might find an older doctor less helpful than a young one. There's simply no way of telling. 

    So really I would think less about the age of the doctor and more about your situation. Your father's sad journey has obviously been a huge load on you, as it would for most people. Stress can utterly fuck people. It sounds like you have far more going on besides your father so you need to find a way to let some of that out. 




    No I do get that medically they know way more than I ever will.. BUT in this case I just think that there could be other conditions that cause dizziness but she didn't seem to even offer anything else up which is what made me question the whole thing. I don't know what they actually are as im not a doctor apart from I know some heart conditions can cause that. But im sure there are other things too.

    I guess I can always go back and ask for someone else.. I think I will wait a bit and see what happens this week first. And look in to the counselling thing.

    It varies a lot but you usually get seen fairly quickly by a triage nurse who will then refer you on to the most appropriate thing ( usually some form of CBT group based approach although,again, lots of regional variation) for which you might have a wait. 

    Hope it goes well. 
    Tipton is a small fishing village in the borough of Sandwell. 
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  • DominicDominic Frets: 16013
    Old professionals in all fields from Law to medicine , engineering to surveying have been proven to be dangerous.
    As much as they have experience they also have a jaded and sometimes complacent approach.Louche even.
    They didn't invent CPD for nothing . It is now de rigeur in all professions ............You can teach old dogs new tricks.
    Conversely some young, eager intelligent professionals are fresh from far more sophisticated and cutting edge training .
    Write them off as young whippersnappers at your peril .
      Dougie Hauser MD    age 12
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