What speaker for 5E3 Deluxe?

stickyfiddle

As titled. Suggestions please! Am building one in the 2018Q4 challenge. 

I like the idea of a Celestion Blue because I've somehow never had one, and the LazyJ crowd seem to agree it's a good fit for the basic circuit. But at 100db i'm wondering if there's anything better for home use (ie 96db or less!) that sounds similar, or even suits the circuit better. 

Equally, I'm adding a variable voltage mod once I've got it working, so maybe I shouldn't worry to much about speaker sensitivity...?

Thoughts please, oh knowledgeable tweed people of t'fretboard

dazzajl

That is a really personal choice and there’s obviously no correct answer but I love mine with it’s Blue. 

ICBM

Jensen P12R if you want lower sensitivity - only 94dB. It’s the quietest ‘good’ speaker I can think of - it sounds very sweet, but I would normally avoid it because it isn’t very loud. The first time I tried one - in a Deluxe Reverb - it was so quiet I thought the amp wasn’t working right...

stickyfiddle

Cheers both. The Jensen sounds good for current purposes, and way cheaper than a Blue too, which is nice. 

Tone-wise, how do they stack up? I'm really more keen on the Blackface sort of thing than the raspy thing that Tweeds & Voxes do, so hoping to get something that leans away from "rasp"

RiftAmps

WGS G12Q for low volume ceramic, Celestion Blue, WGS Black and Blue, or Fane A60 for top-class (but loud) Alnico tone.

The Jensen P12R, P12Q, and P12N all sound great but do have that papery rasp which some aren't too keen on.

menamestom

stickyfiddle said:

Tone-wise, how do they stack up? I'm really more keen on the Blackface sort of thing than the raspy thing that Tweeds & Voxes do, so hoping to get something that leans away from "rasp"

I started with a WGS G12q in mine, a very small magnet 20w speaker.   Advertised as having speaker breakup, that was rasp central.  Stay away from those.

So perhaps a bigger magnet ceramic for more blackface.  Eminence CRex might be nice?

I have a Celestion G12H anniversary in my 5e3 and so far so good.   I got that after coming accross some Greg V vids on youtube, it’s the speaker he goes for in this amp type.  Personally I thought it was worth trying as it’s significantly cheaper than a blue. 

ICBM

stickyfiddle said:

Cheers both. The Jensen sounds good for current purposes, and way cheaper than a Blue too, which is nice. 

Tone-wise, how do they stack up? I'm really more keen on the Blackface sort of thing than the raspy thing that Tweeds & Voxes do, so hoping to get something that leans away from "rasp"

Now you tell us . In that case avoid a low-power alnico...

Jensen Tornado - really. Very clear and even, not raspy - but not too smooth or dull either. I’ve only tried the 100W Classic so far, which is perfect in 60s-70s American-voiced amps. If you want lower sensitivity you might be better with the 80W or 65W one - there are good clips on the website.

Dominic

Red Fang Alnico or Fane A60 in preference to the Blue
but still loud
Cannabis Rex is nice if you play a tele or strat through it.......takes the icepick top away

stickyfiddle

ICBM said:

stickyfiddle said:

Cheers both. The Jensen sounds good for current purposes, and way cheaper than a Blue too, which is nice. 

Tone-wise, how do they stack up? I'm really more keen on the Blackface sort of thing than the raspy thing that Tweeds & Voxes do, so hoping to get something that leans away from "rasp"

Now you tell us . In that case avoid a low-power alnico...

Jensen Tornado - really. Very clear and even, not raspy - but not too smooth or dull either. I’ve only tried the 100W Classic so far, which is perfect in 60s-70s American-voiced amps. If you want lower sensitivity you might be better with the 80W or 65W one - there are good clips on the website.

Cat -> pigeons !!

The thing is, I've never played a 5e3, and I'm pretty sure my next-next amp will be something blackface-flavoured, so I'm not sure whether I should really lean in that direction, or embrace this thing for what it is, and go for "maximum tweed"

ICBM

stickyfiddle said:

Cat -> pigeons !!

The thing is, I've never played a 5e3, and I'm pretty sure my next-next amp will be something blackface-flavoured, so I'm not sure whether I should really lean in that direction, or embrace this thing for what it is, and go for "maximum tweed"

Simple... "maximum tweed" - Jensen P12-something depending on how much volume and bottom end you want. (R, Q, N in that order of increasing volume.) These are the original type speakers for Fender Tweed amps and if you want the full experience, that should be your point of reference.

If you want it to sound more like a Blackface, avoid anything too low-powered or middy, as you don't want cone distortion or more midrange than the amp already has.

57Deluxe

I'd say a Blue even though I have the standard Jensen in mine, but that is cos I have a pedal turns that Jensen into a Blue!

Emiel

I tried the P12Q and P12N in a Tweed Deluxe clone, preferred the low efficiency Q as you are able to push it harder. It thickens up real nicely with the volume up. The amp doesn't push the N too hard so it will actually sound brighter at higher volumes! I had a few Weber's too but actually preferred the Jensens. Haven't tried a Blue at higher volumes as it is much much much louder than the P12Q. If  you're able to play that loud (I am not) then the Blue might be a good one. I found it middier and treblier than the Jensens too.

MtB

My 5e3 has had both a Weber 12a125a and a Tayden Ace in it. For the "correct" sound I'd go with the Weber, but I've modified the hell out of my 5e3 (coupling cap values, ability to run 6L6 or 6v6, vvr, switched negative feedback), so the Tayden get the gig!

If you want a Weber 12a125a, the one I have is up for sale.    

breezytele

If you like blackface, there’s something to be said for high sensitivity (100dB) since you can get some decent tweed cleans at low volume
 
The trade off is that tweed overdrive will be a lot louder ( but I see you’re planning to build in attenuation, so that would be ok)

Also, a good eq pedal in front can also give you some BF style scoop ...
( there’s a good TPS on eq pedals)

stickyfiddle

breezytele said:

If you like blackface, there’s something to be said for high sensitivity (100dB) since you can get some decent tweed cleans at low volume
 
The trade off is that tweed overdrive will be a lot louder ( but I see you’re planning to build in attenuation, so that would be ok)

Also, a good eq pedal in front can also give you some BF style scoop ...
( there’s a good TPS on eq pedals)

That's what I'm wondering. 

I do have a great blackface-y pedal (the virtually unknown Anarchy Audio Gold Class) and I'm not even that keen on the Tweed breakup thing, much more the chimy just-past-clean thing, so I'm edging back to a Celestion Blue as a starting point then maybe try other things once I have a benchmark, and only if I feel the need to.

menamestom

I tried my Tweed Deluxe with my Princeton the other day.  I was amazed the difference in tone.
I think trying to get a tweed to sound blackface will be almost impossible, whatever speaker is in there.  Perhaps with no cone breakup and a speaker without too much extra mids, it would be slightly in the blackface direction, but that’s only 10% of the journey.

I guess NFB and fixed bias mods would be a possibility, and with the right speaker it might start to sound less tweedy.

I think it’s probably easier to go the other way round, blackface in the direction of tweed with the right pedals.

57Deluxe

/\ This

dcg

Fane A60...Jesse Hoff sometimes puts them in his Lazy J20s, and they sound great.  A Blue is in the Fane's bloodline, but it really is more refined (in my view).  I also had a Scumback Scumnico in my 5E3, and loved it...

ruoma

dcg said:

Fane A60...Jesse Hoff sometimes puts them in his Lazy J20s, and they sound great.  A Blue is in the Fane's bloodline, but it really is more refined (in my view).  I also had a Scumback Scumnico in my 5E3, and loved it...

The blue is more refined or the fane?

p90fool

What size and depth of cabinet?

I had a WGS G12Q in a deep-ish cab and it was lovely, but in a Blues Jr cab it sounded like an 8" speaker, no matter what amp I plugged into it. 

ToneControl

I used to have several 5E3 and 5x3 amps
I didn't like the Celestion blue or gold with them
I'd say just get a Jensen or an Eminence Legend 1258
I did have a Tayden Alnico that worked well, but it had a different sound to the Celestion Alnicos

I bought the 1258 after a chat with the owner of Victoria amps, who told me the breakup was much smoother on the 1258 than on Jensens (and that he now fitted 1258s as standard). He was right, the breakup was much nicer.