Can I use ART tube preamp with bass?

surfguy13

This is probably an extremely stupid question but I have an ART tube preamp that I have been using for recording with an acoustic/sound hole pickup and was wondering if it could be used in front of a bass combo?

I have an old Ampeg BA115 combo which just needs a slight increase in volume in some situations and was actually thinking of replacing it with a more powerful combo but then thought I might possibly be able to use it in front of the Ampeg? 

I've never used the preamp for anything other than mikes or the acoustic and so wasn't sure if it was a good idea.  I tried it today and it certainly seems to give me the boost I need but wasn't too sure if it might damage the Ampeg or................?

Funkfingers

Are you proposing to use the ART instead of the Ampeg BA115 pre-amp stage or in addition to it?

Either way, if the output of the ART box is set to above unity gain, the signal reaching the power amp stage of the BA115 should be increased. Begin with the Flat/Neutral preset. Experiment with the other options later.

ICBM

Boosting the input signal probably won't be a good idea - unless the amp never reaches the point of clipping even with the volume and master controls up full, it won't get any louder, it will just reach the point of distortion sooner. These are not particularly loud amps even given they're only 100W.  It's also potentially risky - they are also not especially reliable, and are known for blowing both the speaker and the amp section... in fact my workshop bass cab is the remains of one where the amp blew up and wasn't economical to repair.

surfguy13

Funkfingers said:

Are you proposing to use the ART instead of the Ampeg BA115 pre-amp stage or in addition to it?

Either way, if the output of the ART box is set to above unity gain, the signal reaching the power amp stage of the BA115 should be increased. Begin with the Flat/Neutral preset. Experiment with the other options later.

I'm looking at simply using it front of the amp's preamp as I have no idea whatsoever how to bypass the internal preamp.  Therefore using the ART as a pre preamp if that makes sense?  

I always use the flat preset and that's how I tried the preamp.  With the 'volume' and 'master' on the amp at around 12 o'clock and the ART set to maybe 2 o'clock.  This seems to work really well.  However, unsure as to whether this may cause damage to the amp.

I am not quite sure what the unity gain is?

ICBM

surfguy13 said:

I'm looking at simply using it front of the amp's preamp as I have no idea whatsoever how to bypass the internal preamp.  Therefore using the ART as a pre preamp if that makes sense?  

I always use the flat preset and that's how I tried the preamp.  With the 'volume' and 'master' on the amp at around 12 o'clock and the ART set to maybe 2 o'clock.  This seems to work really well.  However, unsure as to whether this may cause damage to the amp.

If it's not making it distort, it won't. But if you need more volume, just turning the master up will be more effective - if I remember rightly they have quite a non-linear taper and need to be up a fair way to get anything like the full power out of the amp.

If you want to use the preamp just because you get a better tone that way without pushing the amp harder it's also fine.

surfguy13

ICBM said:

Boosting the input signal probably won't be a good idea - unless the amp never reaches the point of clipping even with the volume and master controls up full, it won't get any louder, it will just reach the point of distortion sooner. These are not particularly loud amps even given they're only 100W.  It's also potentially risky - they are also not especially reliable, and are known for blowing both the speaker and the amp section... in fact my workshop bass cab is the remains of one where the amp blew up and wasn't economical to repair.

OK, the amp has definitely not started clipping and does not do so regardless of how much I increase the 'input' and 'output' on the ART.  It doesn't seem to detract from the tone either......sounds almost identical to the original tone without the ART in front of it.

I agree, these Ampeg combos are really very under-powered but even in light of that I love the sound of them.  Before this one I had a B3 and just loved the sound but it was similarly under-powered.

I definitely won't run the amp with the 'volume' or 'master' above 12 o'clock, I don't need to given the boost that the ART provides.  Interestingly I am getting no distortion at all from the amp whether or not I use the ART.  Really clean and smooth signal all the way up.  

Do you think it would be safe to use the ART in front of the amp but keep the ART's 'input' and 'output' between 12 o'clock and 2 o'clock and the 'volume' and the 'master' on the amp at around 11-12 o'clock?  This isn't particularly loud but definitely gives just that boost in volume that I need.  Or.......should I ditch the idea altogether?  

ICBM

I think as long as you aren't getting any distortion it's safe whether you're doing it with the amp's volume controls or the preamp - but if you're finding the amp not loud enough, 12 o'clock on the master is definitely too low. If you're not using the preamp to change the tone there's really no point in using it - just turn the amp up.

surfguy13

ICBM said:

I think as long as you aren't getting any distortion it's safe whether you're doing it with the amp's volume controls or the preamp - but if you're finding the amp not loud enough, 12 o'clock on the master is definitely too low. If you're not using the preamp to change the tone there's really no point in using it - just turn the amp up.

I have to have the master on the amp right up if I'm using the amp without the ART.  It really isn't loud enough.  I have found that as I increase EQ the volume rises which is something I've never experienced on another amp, certainly didn't happen with the B3 when I was using standard EQ rather than the graphic.

No, definitely not using the preamp to change the tone,  simply to give the amp a volume boost.  I love the tone of the amp as it is but just not quite enough volume.  The ART doesn't seem to change the tone that much although I haven't really used it enough to be 100% sure.

It's great to know that as long as I'm not getting distortion its probably safe to use the ART.  Thanks once again for the great advice! 

Funkfingers

surfguy13 said:
It really isn't loud enough.

Q.E.D.

surfguy13 said:
as I increase EQ, the volume rises which is something I've never experienced on another amp

The EQ is active.

Somewhere within the travel of each EQ control, there should be a detent. Above that detent is boost. Below is cut. Theoretically, the detent indicates unity gain for its frequency band.

surfguy13

Funkfingers said:

surfguy13 said:
It really isn't loud enough.

Q.E.D.

surfguy13 said:
as I increase EQ, the volume rises which is something I've never experienced on another amp

The EQ is active.

Somewhere within the travel of each EQ control, there should be a detent. Above that detent is boost. Below is cut. Theoretically, the detent indicates unity gain for its frequency band.

Really good to know that it is active EQ, had no idea at all.  Helps me understand exactly what I am doing when using the EQ, particularly as there is potentially a cut below the detent for each EQ control.  Many thanks for the excellent advice!